Wait On That Abortion

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

40 years after roe v wade, and people still want to make it the #1 issue. it's not. if you don't believe in it, don't get one. otherwise, myofb.

I thought jobs and unemployment were the number one issue this past election.
I am glad to see that we've had a record year of corporate profits, however.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

I thought jobs and unemployment were the number one issue this past election.
I am glad to see that we've had a record year of corporate profits, however.

i said people still want to make it #1-of course that's some people-not everyone. there are voters who vote strictly on who is 'pro life'. i think that's a misnomer, who the hell is pro death?

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i said people still want to make it #1-of course that's some people-not everyone. there are voters who vote strictly on who is 'pro life'. i think that's a misnomer, who the hell is pro death?

Well, Dr K, the various serial killers among us (I don't recall how many the FBI says are around), the Hemlock Society and other such groups, and supporters of Capital Punishment (ironically including many folks who are "pro-life")

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Well, Dr K, the various serial killers among us (I don't recall how many the FBI says are around), the Hemlock Society and other such groups, and supporters of Capital Punishment (ironically including many folks who are "pro-life")

i was referring to those who use the pro life moniker as a way to exalt themselves. people who are pro choice aren't pro death, they're generally people who think that people have to figure things out for themselves.
i've read that religion is a way to mind other peoples business, i think the abortion argument is a perfect example of that.


also, just because you, somer, know of a couple of women who used abortion as a bc method doesn't necessarily prove anything on a wider scale.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i was referring to those who use the pro life moniker as a way to exalt themselves. people who are pro choice aren't pro death, they're generally people who think that people have to figure things out for themselves.
i've read that religion is a way to mind other peoples business, i think the abortion argument is a perfect example of that.


also, just because you, somer, know of a couple of women who used abortion as a bc method doesn't necessarily prove anything on a wider scale.

In 2008 (last year stats were available), there were 1,262,350 recorded abortions...approximately half of these involved women who had at least one prior abortion. 11% of all women having an abortion did not use alternative methods of birth control....there is your "wider scale"

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

In 2008 (last year stats were available), there were 1,262,350 recorded abortions...approximately half of these involved women who had at least one prior abortion. 11% of all women having an abortion did not use alternative methods of birth control....there is your "wider scale"

11%. not a huge percentage, is it?

i was talking to a co-worker the other day, said i was glad i was born in an age of birth control. women like to have control over their lives, pregnancy being a big part of that. i like that my children are grown, that i can have a good relationship with my husband without having to worry about children. like i read the other day, i wouldn't take a million dollars for one of my children; but i wouldn't give you a nickel for another one!

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Danzig

11%. not a huge percentage, is it?

i was talking to a co-worker the other day, said i was glad i was born in an age of birth control. women like to have control over their lives, pregnancy being a big part of that. i like that my children are grown, that i can have a good relationship with my husband without having to worry about children. like i read the other day, i wouldn't take a million dollars for one of my children; but i wouldn't give you a nickel for another one!

About 130,000 women...in one year and that's assuming they are the only ones (those having multiple abortions not being considered). As I said, "many", I'm not being critical of their decisions, it's their choice, but it is using abortion as a birth control method.

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Well, Dr K, the various serial killers among us (I don't recall how many the FBI says are around), the Hemlock Society and other such groups, and supporters of Capital Punishment (ironically including many folks who are "pro-life")

I think it is ironic that people against the death penalty are for abortion

what crime could a baby commit to deserve the death penalty?

[jms62]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

I think it is ironic that people against the death penalty are for abortion

what crime could a baby commit to deserve the death penalty?

They don't kill babies they abort a fetus. Its legal and has been for some time or do you simply not recognize what is legal but against your holier than thou moral code.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by jms62

They don't kill babies they abort a fetus.

That's the same thing. Here's why:

1 sperm + 1 egg becomes 1 fertilized zygote (a singular human cell that has a distinctly different genetic code than the mother and the father).

That zygote will immediately begin the process of replicating and growing. Without interference it will eventually become a human infant in 9 months, which is why people invented the procedure of abortion in the first place.

This also leads to the inescapable scientific conclusion that life begins at conception based on:

the unique DNA, the immediate and sustained growth in volume and complexity, and the fact that prior to conception, no one organism can exist in two pieces.

Progression is:
Zygote -> Blastocyst -> Embryo -> Fetus -> Infant

As anyone knows who has seen CSI or the O.J. Simpson Trial, among other examples, a unique DNA series corresponds to a unique individual. If you find a DNA sample at a crime scene that does not match your current list of suspects, the correct conclusion is that you need to keep looking for a yet unknown individual.

So, unfortunately for the pro-abortion crowd, the fetus, by definition, is someone else's "body". Stating it again, in any human, all non-reproductive cells have 46 chromosomes (the bundles that DNA is arranged in), and, of those non-reproductive cells, all of them match the code of DNA in each other.

The two exceptions are
1) a pregnant female since the child in her womb has his/her own DNA series and
2) God forbid, a cancerous mutation in an adult of either sex.

The unique DNA, the "blueprint" for our construction, signals a unique individual. Legalisms will not obscure or circumvent that truth. Every abortion that has ever taken place was the taking of a life. Sometimes that might have been necessary to save a mother's life. But to whatever extent it was not necessary and was "chosen", it was a pre-meditated murder committed by the would-be mother with the doctor as an accessory.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by joeydb

That's the same thing. Here's why:

1 sperm + 1 egg becomes 1 fertilized zygote (a singular human cell that has a distinctly different genetic code than the mother and the father).

That zygote will immediately begin the process of replicating and growing. Without interference it will eventually become a human infant in 9 months, which is why people invented the procedure of abortion in the first place.

This also leads to the inescapable scientific conclusion that life begins at conception based on:

the unique DNA, the immediate and sustained growth in volume and complexity, and the fact that prior to conception, no one organism can exist in two pieces.

Progression is:
Zygote -> Blastocyst -> Embryo -> Fetus -> Infant

As anyone knows who has seen CSI or the O.J. Simpson Trial, among other examples, a unique DNA series corresponds to a unique individual. If you find a DNA sample at a crime scene that does not match your current list of suspects, the correct conclusion is that you need to keep looking for a yet unknown individual.

So, unfortunately for the pro-abortion crowd, the fetus, by definition, is someone else's "body". Stating it again, in any human, all non-reproductive cells have 46 chromosomes (the bundles that DNA is arranged in), and, of those non-reproductive cells, all of them match the code of DNA in each other.

The two exceptions are
1) a pregnant female since the child in her womb has his/her own DNA series and
2) God forbid, a cancerous mutation in an adult of either sex.

The unique DNA, the "blueprint" for our construction, signals a unique individual. Legalisms will not obscure or circumvent that truth. Every abortion that has ever taken place was the taking of a life. Sometimes that might have been necessary to save a mother's life. But to whatever extent it was not necessary and was "chosen", it was a pre-meditated murder committed by the would-be mother with the doctor as an accessory.

You are wrong however it is a great cut and paste job.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by joeydb

This also leads to the inescapable scientific conclusion that life begins at conception based on:

You logic (nicely copied, well done) also leads to the "inescapable" conclusion that when you masturbate, you're committing murder (as life doesn't begin from non-life without a big bang)

Progression is:
Zygote -> Blastocyst -> Embryo -> Fetus -> Infant

Yes - and when are abortions done, Joey? At what point in the the above process?

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

I think it is ironic that people against the death penalty are for abortion

what crime could a baby commit to deserve the death penalty?

Yeah, it works both ways....seems like if you support abortion you would support the death penalty and vice versa. Of course the argument is that the fetus isn't really a baby while the otherside says that a baby is innocent while the person sentenced to death is not. Convenient arguments both ways.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Yeah, it works both ways....seems like if you support abortion you would support the death penalty and vice versa. Of course the argument is that the fetus isn't really a baby while the otherside says that a baby is innocent while the person sentenced to death is not. Convenient arguments both ways.

i think there's a huge difference between a woman deciding to be pregnant or not, and a state killing it's citizens as a form of punishment. pro choice people aren't necessarily pro-abortion. they may be pro-mind your business, let another person make up their mind type people, while being against execution as a form of punishment.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i think there's a huge difference between a woman deciding to be pregnant or not, and a state killing it's citizens as a form of punishment. pro choice people aren't necessarily pro-abortion. they may be pro-mind your business, let another person make up their mind type people, while being against execution as a form of punishment.

That's an example of the weaknesses of a sound bite society where every position is reduced to as few descriptive words as possible and everyone is pigeon-holed into one description or the other. Despite my post about serial killers etc. it is obvious that most folks are "pro-life" as opposed to "pro-death", likewise most folks are generally "pro-choice" as opposed to restricting freedom of choice overall. I would say that I am philosophically opposed to abortion but realize that in the end it's a choice made by the individual. I support all logical means of reducing the abortion rate but don't want to see folks forced into a decision by others....so where does that put me?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

... pro choice people aren't necessarily pro-abortion. they may be pro-mind your business, let another person make up their mind type people, ....

Precisely. To say someone who is in favor of abortion being legal doesn't mean they are not pro-life. I'm anti-abortion, but completely pro-choice. I absolutely will defend a woman's right to not have my opinion interfere in her life, and her choice of legal health care.

It reminds me of when Bush stuck his stupid, arrogant, government nose into Terry Schiavo's life. I am sick of this generally Republican attitude of thinking that the purpose of government is to control the lives, ethics and morals of others! Government has no business in such interference.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

I think it is ironic that people against the death penalty are for abortion

what crime could a baby commit to deserve the death penalty?

I think it is ironic certain pro life people are also blatant homophobes. Fetus's should have rights, but not gays.

Make a lot of sense.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I think it is ironic certain pro life people are also blatant homophobes. Fetus's should have rights, but not gays.

Make a lot of sense.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i said people still want to make it #1-of course that's some people-not everyone. there are voters who vote strictly on who is 'pro life'. i think that's a misnomer, who the hell is pro death?

Exactly. I don't know anyone who is in favor of abortions as birth control! Beyond absurd.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Riot

Exactly. I don't know anyone who is in favor of abortions as birth control! Beyond absurd.

Interesting! I've known several young women who used abortion as exactly that. One of my best friends when I returned to school in 1971 after my tour of duty in the army had at least 4 abortions, her mindset being it was her preferred method of birth control. Over the years I have known several more women who have had multiple abortions...all would say it was "birth control".