Saratoga Handle And Att Decline

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by jms62

Racing's bigger problems IMO are the watered down payouts due to .50 P4 and Dime supers. Impossible to show a profit with $100 P4 payouts being the norm.. Just look at our selections forum. No One showed a profit playing Pick 4's during Saratoga and it wasn't because they weren't hitting them. A few years ago when P4's were at a buck you hit 3 or 4 and were able to show a profit for the meet. That isnt happening anymore but I am in the minority in my feelings for the .50 P4 and dime supers.

You know I disagree with you on this and I don't think there's any data to back it up.

[10 pnt move up]

One person was not happy with Saratoga it appears.

http://espn.go.com/horse-racing/stor...aratoga-season

[randallscott35]

I don't agree that Saginaw was the memorable moment of the meet. Sad yes, but that isn't what I will remember from it....Kay is surely green. Bore in bore out and wraps....needs a rest.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

One person was not happy with Saratoga it appears.

http://espn.go.com/horse-racing/stor...aratoga-season

Who is he to speak for NYRA employees? Aside from coming and going, his trips around the grounds could be measured on one hand....easily.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

You know I disagree with you on this and I don't think there's any data to back it up.

I agree with you. Not only are low minimums better because they induce bettors to overuse bad longshots ... but there's nothing stopping anyone from playing a 10-cent bet ten times, or a 50-cent bet twice... and if they do, they avoid IRS signers and on some occasions, even withholding.

The only intelligent argument I've ever heard for higher minimums -- like a $2 pick six for instance -- is that they're much more likely to induce carryovers. Even so, I'm a fan of the lowest possible minimum under every circumstance.

And when one of these 50-cent Pick 5's carryover ... it's a great thing. There was a double-carryover on a 50-cent Pick 5 at Golden Gate earlier in the year that left a massive carryover into a Pick 5 on a day with all small fields and logical looking races. It was a situation where it was like welfare for horseplayers.

Low minimums equal = much better value for bettors who don't chase after hopeless longshots, less IRS paperwork, less chances of withholding, and even some generous carryover situations across the country, for those bettors who try and be optimistic.

I will never understand what JMS is talking about with this.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

I agree with you. Not only are low minimums better because they induce bettors to overuse bad longshots ... but there's nothing stopping anyone from playing a 10-cent bet ten times, or a 50-cent bet twice... and if they do, they avoid IRS signers and on some occasions, even withholding.

The only intelligent argument I've ever heard for higher minimums -- like a $2 pick six for instance -- is that they're much more likely to induce carryovers. Even so, I'm a fan of the lowest possible minimum under every circumstance.

And when one of these 50-cent Pick 5's carryover ... it's a great thing. There was a double-carryover on a 50-cent Pick 5 at Golden Gate earlier in the year that left a massive carryover into a Pick 5 on a day with all small fields and logical looking races. It was a situation where it was like welfare for horseplayers.

Low minimums equal = much better value for bettors who don't chase after hopeless longshots, less IRS paperwork, less chances of withholding, and even some generous carryover situations across the country, for those bettors who try and be optimistic.

I will never understand what JMS is talking about with this.

Well said. I have no problems with the lower minimums. While I have done no scientific study, I do not feel that the lower minimums have resulted in lower payouts. I don't get why someone who has a problem with the minimums can't just make their bet mulitple times to tailor it to amounts they are satisfied with.

[Calzone Lord]

I love races, where you get like a field of 10, and about 5 horses in the race are so hopeless, they just about qualify for the Bums of the day list.

If there is a 10-cent super offered, and the outcome of the super is very logical, you'll be shocked by how well it pays. I can't prove it, but I know a lot of people can't resist the urge to use the all button or throw stupid horses in underneath, when the minimums are a dime.

I will actually try and look for these type of races on occasion. They're favorable opportunities.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by pointman

Well said. I have no problems with the lower minimums. While I have done no scientific study, I do not feel that the lower minimums have resulted in lower payouts. I don't get why someone who has a problem with the minimums can't just make their bet mulitple times to tailor it to amounts they are satisfied with.

I need to research this more but I believe most people play the same amount of money they did when it was a dollar at the .50 interval and get more coverage especially to the mid level 15-25 dollar horses they wouldn't have gotten previously. More people are sharing thus depressed payouts. Steve's base bet on the selections thread is basically the same $75 bucks it was when P4's were a dollar. I think most people (Me and You for instance) are doing the same thing. I'll take this up as a project over the winter to see average payout to $1 when the min was a dollar vs now.

[pmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by jms62

I need to research this more but I believe most people play the same amount of money they did when it was a dollar at the .50 interval and get more coverage especially to the mid level 15-25 dollar horses they wouldn't have gotten previously. More people are sharing thus depressed payouts. Steve's base bet on the selections thread is basically the same $75 bucks it was when P4's were a dollar. I think most people (Me and You for instance) are doing the same thing. I'll take this up as a project over the winter to see average payout to $1 when the min was a dollar vs now.

I don't think the $.50 option has a negative effect on the pk4 payouts vs parlay at all.

If the rationale above were enough to influence the payouts, more logical series would pay better with all the blown coverage.

[randallscott35]

More thoughts from DRF...again they are missing the Carolina BBQ angle here.

http://www.drf.com/news/del-mar-had-...oga-lost-steam

[art vanderlay]

I get the impression most of these articles are penned by turf writers looking for a shorter work day.I on the other hand loved every minute of it.