Saratoga Handle And Att Decline

[PatCummings]

When 85-90% of all racing handle is collected off-track, why people think focusing on attendance as an important metric for anyone but those counting gate and concession revenue is beyond me.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

When 85-90% of all racing handle is collected off-track, why people think focusing on attendance as an important metric for anyone but those counting gate and concession revenue is beyond me.

OK, overall handle declined.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

OK, overall handle declined.

Which basically boiled down to one day (yesterday) having a sizable difference year over year. Closing weekend this year was a disaster from a handle perspective.

Granted, handle should have been up given the terrific weather and overall number of races. There's no reasonable explanation for it at this point. However, to use attendance as a metric of any type is irrelevant.

[Gaelic Storm]

An easy way to increase attendance is to have more give aways. It won't help handle much but an extra tee shirt day or 2 might increase paid attendance by a 20K.

About the handle I wonder how many pick six carryovers there were last year compared to this year and how big they were?

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Which basically boiled down to one day (yesterday) having a sizable difference year over year. Closing weekend this year was a disaster from a handle perspective.

Granted, handle should have been up given the terrific weather and overall number of races. There's no reasonable explanation for it at this point. However, to use attendance as a metric of any type is irrelevant.

Attendance concerns are farcical because the numbers that are being used are completely artificial due to the 'spinner' phenomenon of the 90's-00's. They are 'down' because they were never that 'up'. The pairing back of giveaways guarantees lower year-to-year attendance numbers.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Which basically boiled down to one day (yesterday) having a sizable difference year over year. Closing weekend this year was a disaster from a handle perspective.

Granted, handle should have been up given the terrific weather and overall number of races. There's no reasonable explanation for it at this point. However, to use attendance as a metric of any type is irrelevant.

I wonder if improved racing product and weather at other venues may have hurt Saratoga? Not really sure, I know Del Mar which I follow pretty close, had its best meet probably since 2000ish. Now if we can just get real dirt.

[Cannon Shell]

The declines or gains had the last day not been wiped out are pretty much negligible. The attendance total figures as was pointed out are artificially enhanced and are hardly accurate anyway. The handle decline this season can be almost directly tied to those friends of Fowlers being wiped out by Andy's poor selections and not being allowed to churn the pools with their millions.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The declines or gains had the last day not been wiped out are pretty much negligible. The attendance total figures as was pointed out are artificially enhanced and are hardly accurate anyway. The handle decline this season can be almost directly tied to those friends of Fowlers being wiped out by Andy's poor selections and not being allowed to churn the pools with their millions.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Granted, handle should have been up given the terrific weather and overall number of races. There's no reasonable explanation for it at this point

This was the only point I was trying to make.

[blackthroatedwind]

For those that are interested, handle was up double digits last year, which made gains this year extremely hard to achieve. Everything is relative.

My burying the fans, as Chuck suggested, was ultimately too much to overcome.

All kidding aside, take a look at the daily handle, the actual numbers, and every Saturday as well. Each time I would look at last year's numbers as we waited for this year's final tally, I was taken aback by the kind of numbers that we were up against.

[Cannon Shell]

I believe players reading of name tags as opposed to wagering cost them .004% of on track handle.

Was the Yankees attendance up or down last year?

Not sure? No one cares... Not sure why anyone cares about Saratoga's unless it is way up or way down. Drawing conclusions from overall numbers with no context taken is a waste of time. Of course most of our fearless racing leaders and dopey media members make a big deal out of it

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

For those that are interested, handle was up double digits last year, which made gains this year extremely hard to achieve. Everything is relative.

My burying the fans, as Chuck suggested, was ultimately too much to overcome.

All kidding aside, take a look at the daily handle, the actual numbers, and every Saturday as well. Each time I would look at last year's numbers as we waited for this year's final tally, I was taken aback by the kind of numbers that we were up against.

Fair enough but wasn't last year the first year they did the Friday opening and the record number of days, which is why last year was up so much on a % basis?....The per race totals as I watch finishing totals look much less than the mid 2000 pools I used to see in terms of win place and show totals. Maybe people are playing more exotics and multirace wagers. I'm sure that's part of it.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Fair enough but wasn't last year the first year they did the Friday opening and the record number of days, which is why last year was up so much on a % basis?....The per race totals as I watch finishing totals look much less than the mid 2000 pools I used to see in terms of win place and show totals. Maybe people are playing more exotics and multirace wagers. I'm sure that's part of it.

No and don't be.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

When 85-90% of all racing handle is collected off-track, why people think focusing on attendance as an important metric for anyone but those counting gate and concession revenue is beyond me.

I disagree strongly. Lifelong fans of horse racing are created not by watching TVG but going to the track. I get the spinner phenom which Steve talked about so I have no problem if the numbers aren't apples to apples. But the idea that attendance at the most important meet in the entire nation is meaningless doesn't wash with me.