Frankel

OTM Al · #1 07-29-2011, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seattleallstar

thats some BS if they dont even attempt the Arc, if this is supposedly the best horse of all European times.

He's a miler, not a middle distance runner.

Seattleallstar · #2 07-29-2011, 06:15 PM

woo hoo the Euro version of Twirling Candy

King Glorious · #3 07-29-2011, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTM Al

He's a miler, not a middle distance runner.

Well, to be fair, some of the great Euro runners of the past excelled doing both. Look at two of their most recent "superhorses" in Zarkava and Sea the Stars. Both were good enough to win grade ones at 8f and also win the Arc the same year. In fact, Zarkava was not only good enough to win a grade one at 8f but she beat Goldikova while doing it. He can continue to dominate at a mile and maybe go down as one of the best milers ever but I think that in order to join the conversation as best ever period, he's going to have to show an ability to do a little more than just run miles.

Mawhip · #4 07-29-2011, 06:45 PM

King Glorious is right on here. He's a brilliant miler, maybe one of the best in recent memory but in order to go down as one of the best he will have to win a race like the Irish Champions Stakes or the Juddmonte International both at 10 Furlongs. I think asking him to win the Arc may be a bit much for a horse with his speed. I'm sure if they cut him back to sprint distances, he would win any Group 1 at that distance as well.

Sightseek · #5 07-29-2011, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mawhip

King Glorious is right on here.

Kingie, you'll always be one of my favorite "characters," but in the 7 years we've been posting on the same boards together, this may be the first time I've ever seen someone write this.

King Glorious · #6 07-29-2011, 09:38 PM

Especially on this forum. Even though I'm often wrong, as is everyone else, when I am right, people on here are afraid to say so for fear it would get them in trouble with the mean girls.

Indian Charlie · #7 07-29-2011, 11:23 PM

Ah, now you've martyred yourself.

Awesome.

RolloTomasi · #8 07-30-2011, 12:10 AM

Isn't Frankel the horse that nearly got rundown by Zoffany a few weeks ago?

He did pound the hell out of Canford Cliffs, though. A horse that is slightly better than Rip Van Winkle. They probably should have tossed in a pacemaker for him.

All the "great" milers, from Brigadier Gerard to Miesque to Goldikova ventured out for an extra furlong or two during their campaigns. When's he going to do something like that? Likely never, as nowadays they have those "new" Group 1s like the Queen Anne and Lockinge Stakes to shoot for. Next year I predict: the Euro version of Zenyatta.

Frankel clearly has chinks in his armor. Sea The Stars would have leveled him at any distance (as he did RVW and current staying sensation Fame And Glory). Of course, he'd have only gotten the chance to do it at 8f.

Dahoss · #9 07-30-2011, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Especially on this forum. Even though I'm often wrong, as is everyone else, when I am right, people on here are afraid to say so for fear it would get them in trouble with the mean girls.

What is the last thing you were actually right about?

Indian Charlie · #10 07-30-2011, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahoss

What is the last thing you were actually right about?

He did get Zenyatta right as HOY.

Oh wait, he had Goldi for 2010, and Zen in 2008 and 2009.

I guess Curlin in 07?

Dahoss · #11 07-30-2011, 11:52 AM

Count me in with the group that doesn't think Overdriven has been as impressive as Uncle Mo was, but Overdriven is pretty good.

I also think very highly of Frankel, but I truly do not understand the need to label horses immediately after a performance. I get it that this is how the world is now, the internet has enabled EVERYONE to have an opinion on EVERYTHING, and people are prone to throw outlandish comments out to try and compenate for something. But best miler ever? Really?

One more jump 2 back and he gets beat, rider error or not. Maybe eventually he'll run his way to some sort of best ever label, but let's see him do it.

OTM Al · #12 07-30-2011, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Well, to be fair, some of the great Euro runners of the past excelled doing both. Look at two of their most recent "superhorses" in Zarkava and Sea the Stars. Both were good enough to win grade ones at 8f and also win the Arc the same year. In fact, Zarkava was not only good enough to win a grade one at 8f but she beat Goldikova while doing it. He can continue to dominate at a mile and maybe go down as one of the best milers ever but I think that in order to join the conversation as best ever period, he's going to have to show an ability to do a little more than just run miles.

To be clear, I don't think he is as good as advertised and certainly not even the best Euro I've seen in the past 2 or 3 years. However, I always love to hear this "best ever" criteria. Horses that run the shorter distances never can be best ever because they don't run at the middle distances, but middle distance runners can be the best ever without running the shorter distances. And I guess stayers and long distances are right out. Versitility is a trait of a great horse to be sure, but it seems to be applied only in one direction.

Mawhip · #13 07-30-2011, 08:37 AM

I would say Frankel could win races from 6F to 10F at the highest level if his connections give him the chance. I do think he would be vulnerable going 12F but I don't think that disqualifies him for the title of being one of the best.