Frankel

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

People on Facebook are busting nuts over this race like it was some performance of a lifetime...

On face value, he walked on a laughably uncontested lead while rating kindly in a 4 horse field - and poured it on late as his main rival was getting out badly - struggling and inable to keep straight.

I hope the time was remarkable - because if it wasn't - this is one seriously over-hyped performance.

Final time 1:37.47. It looked a lot better than it really was. If those fractions that are listed are true then the first half mile was run in a glacial 52 and change. I totally agree with you on this one. Analysis dead on.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by smuthg

this was posted on Twitter... take it for what it is worth.

Frankel technical proof . Last 4 furlongs - 11.16, 10.13, 11.46 and last furlong12.03. 10.13 ! Crikey thats 42 mph.

Last half mile 44.78?

The runnerup went what then? 45.5ish, while bearing out badly?

[Calzone Lord]

People are saying watching the race brought them to tears on Facebook.

Every year, there is a new Euro 3-year-old who's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Most of the time - they hold that reputation, too.

[Patrick333]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I think he erased a lot of doubts today....truly the best horse in training.

You could be right. He might be the best horse in training. My only disappointment was that it was a four horse field. If he had won as impressively with a six or seven horse field then I probably would be thinking he was the best horse in training.

[Thunder Gulch]

Timeform gives him a 142 rating. That's historically big for those guys.

His rating after the Sussex is now 142 and has him behind only Sea-Bird (145), Brigadier Gerard (144) and Tudor Minstrel (144) in Timeform history.

[Arletta]

Originally Posted by Thunder Gulch

Timeform gives him a 142 rating. That's historically big for those guys.

His rating after the Sussex is now 142 and has him behind only Sea-Bird (145), Brigadier Gerard (144) and Tudor Minstrel (144) in Timeform history.

[Riot]

Just enjoy the horse, even if this particular race wasn't spectacular time-wise. I know there are some people here who are less about the horse, and more about the numbers. That's how they interpret things. Not visually, but numerically. Fine, but try to shift over to just enjoy this gifted horse and his performance.

Three furlongs out, Frankel was 1-2 ahead of Canfield Cliffs, who was just about all out to try and simply keep up with Frankel just cruising along, pulling on his jock with those huge steady strides. Look at the difference in stride turnover. That's where this horse won the race, by the 2 furlong to go mark.

This horse reminds me of Secretariat when he runs. Huge strides, big bodied, tremendously strong, machine-like strides, the jock couldn't half pull him up at the end, and the horse wasn't even blowing. An amazing horse.

I think Canfield Cliffs just drifted under the jocks weight as he was tired and trying his heart out. He didn't change leads and looking at his stride (right hind) he just seemed all in. This horse ran his heart out, too, and he's a darn good horse.

[Mawhip]

Anyone who didn't think Frankel's performance was devestating doesn't know anything about racing. He destroyed a horse that had just won somethingl ike five consecutive G1 races at a mile. Cansfield Cliffs put a whipping on the great Goldikova in his previous start. Everyone knows time is meanlingless in Europe. I ask anyone to name a better miler than Frankel in the last 30 years.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Riot

I know there are some people here who are less about the horse, and more about the numbers. That's how they interpret things. Not visually, but numerically. Fine, but try to shift over to just enjoy this gifted horse and his performance.

I thought the time was supposed to be spectacular - hence the high timeform.

The performance was a glorified workout.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

I thought the time was supposed to be spectacular - hence the high timeform.

The performance was a glorified workout.

I find it hard to use time in European racing, as I do in America, the way the races are run can differ markedly, and this race literally walked the first furlong while they sorted it out.

I got chills watching that horse run that race, the sheer power and ability. One of the best horses I've seen in years. After the race is over, as they go over the car tracks and Frankel switches leads - he puts his head down and looks ready to sprint another 3 and take on all comers.

You didn't enjoy it? Okay.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Mawhip

Anyone who didn't think Frankel's performance was devestating doesn't know anything about racing.

People who actually bet know a dream trip when they see one.

Originally Posted by Mawhip

He destroyed a horse that had just won somethingl ike five consecutive G1 races at a mile.

Great - that horse went from the rail to almost the outside fence in about a furlong.

Originally Posted by Mawhip

Cansfield Cliffs put a whipping on the great Goldikova in his previous start.

Big deal. This wasn't his last race.

Originally Posted by Mawhip

Everyone knows time is meanlingless in Europe.

Wait - now you're some kind of expert on European racing, too?

Originally Posted by Mawhip

I ask anyone to name a better miler than Frankel in the last 30 years.

I ask anyone to link me to a MaWhip post in the last 30 years - that's worth reading.

[Mawhip]

I don't know if I'm an expert in European Racing but I'm certain I know 1000x more than you know about it.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Mawhip

I don't know if I'm an expert in European Racing but I'm certain I know 1000x more than you know about it.

You say this based upon your vast knowledge gained from writing checks and talking to important people?

Tears.

[PatCummings]

Originally Posted by Mawhip

Cansfield Cliffs put a whipping on the great Goldikova in his previous start.

Canford Cliffs beat Goldikova by 3/4 of a length...and FWIW, Peslier was a pound over. Hardly a whipping. Cape Blanco comes back to run well, then wins a G1 in America.

Now onto more topics, and in defense of Calzone Lord...

I can sit back and, with absolutely no worry, enjoy that performance and the race itself. It was a beauty...............

But I am completely, overwhelmingly, UNWILLING to hand out superlatives like the rest of the 21st century yahoos who, in this 24-7 media world, always need to find some degree of how one particular entity (horse, race, ride...in racing parlance, or anything else in the world of sport) is a crowning achievement, the best of the best, etc. Hell, five hours after the call was made, SportsCenter was anointing that home plate play in the 19th inning of the Pirates/Braves game as possibly the worst call EVER! EVER!!!!!!! That's a lot of flippin history of dunce umpiring, not to mention this call was made at 2am.

When I see comments from people that they were crying about this win (as I saw on Facebook), and that some thought they'd never see anything like it again when Goldikova won 3 BC Miles, and suddenly, seven months later they are spewing forth with another round of superlatives for a horse whose career has spanned eight races in 11 months.

Henry Cecil has the right to call Frankel the best horse he's ever laid eyes on, presuming (he's trained many champions, and he has that right) you expect him to know his own stock. But in terms of the rest of us hacks, trying to put perspective on a performance...how about we all use the best modifier for lending perspective...TIME.

Let TIME go by before we declare some of these horses, through eight freakin races, truly great, the best of all time, the supreme champion.

You know why we have to wait? Cause the jolly criers are going to be all aflutter when the next amazing horse of a lifetime crops up next year, or this year, or hasn't debuted yet, or two years from now, etc, etc, etc. A year ago, no one ever heard of Frankel the horse...TIME will tell, and pardon me if happiness in my racing mind isn't sated with another overwhelming superlative. I'll enjoy it for what it was, but reserve personal judgment and superlatives for the passage of time and more experience. It's sensible, rational, and just makes the most damn sense. Those lobbing the ridiculous praise...I'll keep shaking my head and paying no attention to them.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

When I see comments from people that they were crying about this win (as I saw on Facebook),

I cry whenever I read a Molly Jo Rosen status update.

Worse - was the great A. A. R. O. N. --- H. E. S. Z. asking if he was the greatest Euro 3yo of all-time and babbling on and on about his "turn of foot"

[Mawhip]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

You say this based upon your vast knowledge gained from writing checks and talking to important people?

Tears.

I thought you excused yourself from this board or has your self-imposed ban ended already Doug.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

Canford Cliffs beat Goldikova by 3/4 of a length...and FWIW, Peslier was a pound over. Hardly a whipping. Cape Blanco comes back to run well, then wins a G1 in America.

Now onto more topics, and in defense of Calzone Lord...

I can sit back and, with absolutely no worry, enjoy that performance and the race itself. It was a beauty...............

But I am completely, overwhelmingly, UNWILLING to hand out superlatives like the rest of the 21st century yahoos who, in this 24-7 media world, always need to find some degree of how one particular entity (horse, race, ride...in racing parlance, or anything else in the world of sport) is a crowning achievement, the best of the best, etc. Hell, five hours after the call was made, SportsCenter was anointing that home plate play in the 19th inning of the Pirates/Braves game as possibly the worst call EVER! EVER!!!!!!! That's a lot of flippin history of dunce umpiring, not to mention this call was made at 2am.

When I see comments from people that they were crying about this win (as I saw on Facebook), and that some thought they'd never see anything like it again when Goldikova won 3 BC Miles, and suddenly, seven months later they are spewing forth with another round of superlatives for a horse whose career has spanned eight races in 11 months.

Henry Cecil has the right to call Frankel the best horse he's ever laid eyes on, presuming (he's trained many champions, and he has that right) you expect him to know his own stock. But in terms of the rest of us hacks, trying to put perspective on a performance...how about we all use the best modifier for lending perspective...TIME.

Let TIME go by before we declare some of these horses, through eight freakin races, truly great, the best of all time, the supreme champion.

You know why we have to wait? Cause the jolly criers are going to be all aflutter when the next amazing horse of a lifetime crops up next year, or this year, or hasn't debuted yet, or two years from now, etc, etc, etc. A year ago, no one ever heard of Frankel the horse...TIME will tell, and pardon me if happiness in my racing mind isn't sated with another overwhelming superlative. I'll enjoy it for what it was, but reserve personal judgment and superlatives for the passage of time and more experience. It's sensible, rational, and just makes the most damn sense. Those lobbing the ridiculous praise...I'll keep shaking my head and paying no attention to them.

I understand what you are saying and for the most part, I agree with you. But sometimes, something becomes so obviously clear that time is not needed and anyone that's got some experience in watching things can know what they've seen. I go back to Lammtarra in 1994-95. He only raced four times in his career but after winning a 7f maiden race as a 2yo in October, he didn't return again until the Epsom Derby and won that while setting a course record. Then he won the King George and finished it off with the Arc. Any horse that can do that is a great horse. I don't care if it was only four races.

If I watch Kyrie Irving come out this year and average 35 points and 14 assists and see him hanging triple-doubles in Rose and Williams and Rondo, he could retire after one year and I'd know that he had all-time great talent.

I am not saying that Frankel should or shouldn't be annointed now. Personally, I think he's made his way into the conversation of best horses I've seen since I started watching races in 1986 but I couldn't argue with anyone that doesn't think he deserves that just yet.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Mawhip

I thought you excused yourself from this board or has your self-imposed ban ended already Doug.

Even though I kind of hate you and stuff -- can we have a beer sometime?

If for no other reason - It might make me feel important by-proxy.

[Mawhip]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Even though I kind of hate you and stuff -- can we have a beer sometime?

If for no other reason - It might make me feel important by-proxy.

I don't think so.

[Calzone Lord]

Excuse me, I must go weep quietly in a darkened room....