Wait On That Abortion

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Because having a kid is f*cking expensive, but that's not going to stop people from having sex.

Which is why they should exercise better judgment. They, not the taxpayers, should bear the responsibility for events stemming from their own actions. Why is this so hard for people to understand? There is no right to responsibility-free sex. The "Free Love" thing from the sixties and seventies was the result of the collective drug-induced stupors of the hippies and disco freaks. It never existed.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Which is why they should exercise better judgment. They, not the taxpayers, should bear the responsibility for events stemming from their own actions. Why is this so hard for people to understand? There is no right to responsibility-free sex. The "Free Love" thing from the sixties and seventies was the result of the collective drug-induced stupors of the hippies and disco freaks. It never existed.

And if my aunt had a penis she'd be my uncle. Yes, people should exercise better judgment about sex. They should also eat more fruits and veggies, not smoke, exercise at least 30 minutes five times a week and always wear their seatbelts. But they don't. However, all of those situations that don't involve sex mostly affect the individual. Sex affect the possible birth of a baby, that, as you have pointed out, is an individual. If you're going to insist that women not have a choice about whether to bear a child, then you need to be willing to support the brand-new life that has come into the world. Babies have NO control over the circumstances of their conception or the economic status of their parents. None. By saying "well, the parents should have exercised better judgment" you're electing to punish babies because you disagree with the parents' sexual habits.

And that's the part about the anti-abortion side's view of the pro-choice side that makes me so sad. The pro-choice side is very aware that we are talking about real babies and real lives coming into the world and is trying to create a place where every one of those babies is desired, as pro-choicers are also fierce advocates of sex-ed and pre-natal care for women who choose to have kids. The anti-abortion side doesn't seem, to this pro-choicer, to be offering any solutions other than, "Well, the woman should have kept her legs crossed." I really feel if these alleged pro-lifers actually cared about babies that if they and the pro-choicers united on a move to reduce the number of abortions actually performed, as opposed to fights over the legality of them, that huge strides could be made to creating a support system for both babies and parents.

But I don't think it's about babies for anti-abortionists.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

And if my aunt had a penis she'd be my uncle. Yes, people should exercise better judgment about sex. They should also eat more fruits and veggies, not smoke, exercise at least 30 minutes five times a week and always wear their seatbelts. But they don't. However, all of those situations that don't involve sex mostly affect the individual. Sex affect the possible birth of a baby, that, as you have pointed out, is an individual. If you're going to insist that women not have a choice about whether to bear a child, then you need to be willing to support the brand-new life that has come into the world. Babies have NO control over the circumstances of their conception or the economic status of their parents. None. By saying "well, the parents should have exercised better judgment" you're electing to punish babies because you disagree with the parents' sexual habits.

And that's the part about the anti-abortion side's view of the pro-choice side that makes me so sad. The pro-choice side is very aware that we are talking about real babies and real lives coming into the world and is trying to create a place where every one of those babies is desired, as pro-choicers are also fierce advocates of sex-ed and pre-natal care for women who choose to have kids. The anti-abortion side doesn't seem, to this pro-choicer, to be offering any solutions other than, "Well, the woman should have kept her legs crossed." I really feel if these alleged pro-lifers actually cared about babies that if they and the pro-choicers united on a move to reduce the number of abortions actually performed, as opposed to fights over the legality of them, that huge strides could be made to creating a support system for both babies and parents.

But I don't think it's about babies for anti-abortionists.

I only insist that there is no destructive intervention once the woman is actually pregnant. That's not the same as saying "women not have a choice about whether to bear a child". Are we not in agreement that there are choices to be made and risks consciously taken PRIOR to getting pregnant? For those with good judgement and discipline, and yes, sometimes luck, this is a moot point because the pregnancy simply does not occur. The pro-lifers are not, to my knowledge, insisting that we have a baby boom or rallying against birth control. At least that's not my position.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Which is why they should exercise better judgment. They, not the taxpayers, should bear the responsibility for events stemming from their own actions. Why is this so hard for people to understand? There is no right to responsibility-free sex. The "Free Love" thing from the sixties and seventies was the result of the collective drug-induced stupors of the hippies and disco freaks. It never existed.

I really cannot comprehend why so many women have unplanned pregnancies. I live in a overall poor bible belt area where I have seen more pregnant teenagers in the past 2-3 year than I have in the rest of my life combined.

My good friend is now pregnant with her 3rd child at age 22, not any of them are planned. I constantly ask her how she can possibly have 3 unplanned pregnancies. She has no answer for that.

And I'm sorry, but women who are "on the pill" but forget to take it, or dont take it at the same time every day... those women are NOT on birth control.

Having children is such a huge decision to make and a lifetime of responsibility. It is much more difficult to get pregnant than to not get pregnant, considering how many different birth control methods are out there.

Its pretty sad that there are so many women out there that have unwanted pregnancies when it would have been so easy not to get pregnant in the first place. If you are not responsible enough to do that, you should not be having sex. I think it boils down to someone not respecting themself or their body.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I really cannot comprehend why so many women have unplanned pregnancies. I live in a overall poor bible belt area where I have seen more pregnant teenagers in the past 2-3 year than I have in the rest of my life combined.

My good friend is now pregnant with her 3rd child at age 22, not any of them are planned. I constantly ask her how she can possibly have 3 unplanned pregnancies. She has no answer for that.

And I'm sorry, but women who are "on the pill" but forget to take it, or dont take it at the same time every day... those women are NOT on birth control.

Having children is such a huge decision to make and a lifetime of responsibility. It is much more difficult to get pregnant than to not get pregnant, considering how many different birth control methods are out there.

Its pretty sad that there are so many women out there that have unwanted pregnancies when it would have been so easy not to get pregnant in the first place. If you are not responsible enough to do that, you should not be having sex. I think it boils down to someone not respecting themself or their body.

I agree with one point, it certainly does seem that more and more young women are having babies today, when I lived in Ohio it seemed every girl I met had at least one child (I was managing a convenience store so the population I can speak to were employees and customers). Upon returning to Pa., I saw much the same thing...don't know whether my limited observations are in line with national statistics or not. It should be noted that these are young girls with babies or pregnant, not young girls who had an abortion. To me, this is an indicator that despite the increase in effective birth control methods, young women and girls are not taking them. Is that because they don't care, are irresponsible, or simply don't have access to them? I don't know and neither does anyone else. That's why I believe that we have a long way to go to provide necessary services to women. Just as obvious is the male attitude of complete disregard for the ramifications of having unprotected sex. Some things haven't changed from when I was young....boys are still admired by their peers for being "playas" or "studs" and tremendous pressure is placed on young girls to "put out" to remain popular or to keep a demanding boy friend who tells her, "if you love me, you'll do it". I maintain that this is a culture that needs to change, boys must be taught respect for girls and must stop using them for sexual gratification disguised as "love".

[jms62]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I agree with one point, it certainly does seem that more and more young women are having babies today, when I lived in Ohio it seemed every girl I met had at least one child (I was managing a convenience store so the population I can speak to were employees and customers). Upon returning to Pa., I saw much the same thing...don't know whether my limited observations are in line with national statistics or not. It should be noted that these are young girls with babies or pregnant, not young girls who had an abortion. To me, this is an indicator that despite the increase in effective birth control methods, young women and girls are not taking them. Is that because they don't care, are irresponsible, or simply don't have access to them? I don't know and neither does anyone else. That's why I believe that we have a long way to go to provide necessary services to women. Just as obvious is the male attitude of complete disregard for the ramifications of having unprotected sex. Some things haven't changed from when I was young....boys are still admired by their peers for being "playas" or "studs" and tremendous pressure is placed on young girls to "put out" to remain popular or to keep a demanding boy friend who tells her, "if you love me, you'll do it". I maintain that this is a culture that needs to change, boys must be taught respect for girls and must stop using them for sexual gratification disguised as "love".

Nowadays for fuksakes that glamorize teen moms on MTV...

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by jms62

Nowadays for fuksakes that glamorize teen moms on MTV...

Again, part of the culture that needs to change.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I agree with one point, it certainly does seem that more and more young women are having babies today, when I lived in Ohio it seemed every girl I met had at least one child (I was managing a convenience store so the population I can speak to were employees and customers). Upon returning to Pa., I saw much the same thing...don't know whether my limited observations are in line with national statistics or not.

Here are some unbiased sources for general stats on who is getting abortions and their reasons why (note: though it doesn't say so, we can safely assume 100 % of the people choosing induced abortion are female):

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html

And on pregnancy rates in young women:

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/USTPtrends.pdf

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Here are some unbiased sources for general stats on who is getting abortions and their reasons why (note: though it doesn't say so, we can safely assume 100 % of the people choosing induced abortion are female):

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html

And on pregnancy rates in young women:

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/USTPtrends.pdf

So, the way I read that, the pregnancy rate dropped to an all time low among 15-19 yr olds in 2005 but raised a bit in 2006. Glad I prefaced my remarks by admitting it was based on my limited experience, guess I need to get out more to see a larger sample...just seems like there are so many young mothers.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

So, the way I read that, the pregnancy rate dropped to an all time low among 15-19 yr olds in 2005 but raised a bit in 2006. Glad I prefaced my remarks by admitting it was based on my limited experience, guess I need to get out more to see a larger sample...just seems like there are so many young mothers.

Much as I love Twain's famous quote about Disraeli calling the three kinds of lies, "Lies, damn lies and statistics" it is actually an important math and one I wish more Americans, myself included, understood better, because it would be less easy for the media to get away with distorting findings.

The Guttmacher report also notes that while they cite abortion rates jumping considerably after 1973, that they only counted legal abortions in the years prior, as, I assume, there was no way to accurately count illegal ones. Duh, but I appreciate them saying it.