Wait On That Abortion

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by joeydb

There is no equivocation intended. I had no idea you'd hang on my every word, but I should have written "Since" instead of "if". I was following the philosophical train of thought which I believe is supported by the facts we have available to us.

Again, "if you believe in abortion, don't have one" can be rewritten equivalently as "if you don't believe in murder, don't commit one". The latter statement is absurd. The highest crime one person can inflict on another needs to be prevented by more stringent means than simple persuasion. There is no valid choice to be made in favor of terminating another innocent human being's existence. The condition of being pregnant is terminated upon delivery. Once you have the baby, you are no longer pregnant.

As for those who don't wish to be pregnant, a situation which you correctly point out has been happening for thousands of years alongside other forms of bad judgment exercised by humans. That is, as they say, "the breaks".

As civil libertarians have quoted for a long time "Your freedom stops at the tip of my nose." This is true of all of the cells having my DNA. Your freedom stops where it injures me. And that is also true of the unborn individual, with his or her unique DNA. The would-be (and "will-be" mother, after Roe v. Wade is overturned) may not undertake any action that would harm or kill that new individual. Period.

The barbarism of abortion cloaked in the terminology of a medical procedure is not some great new advance like supersonic flight or space travel. We are fortunate that it did not exist for much of our history. It is time for the sexually active adults to act like adults, use proper judgment, restraint, and preparedness. True prevention is the real solution here. There should not be a need for this -- certainly not 40 million plus being slaughtered over 38 years. That's about 7 times as many innocent people as Hitler killed. It's disgusting. It's indefensible on an intellectual level. Many who support abortion are just deathly scared of having to use more responsibility in how they conduct their sexual lifestyle.

it's your opinion, but not a fact, that abortion is 'murder'. many disagree. some say life begins at conception, others say no. seeing as how roe v wade has existed for as long as it has, i'm not figuring that will change. there've been opportunities over the years for the supreme court to overturn the law; it hasn't happened. i doubt it ever will.
and i'd say many who support the ability to choose do so because they don't want people minding their business, and feel the same towards others.
and yes, prevention is all well and good, but not foolproof. no doubt you saw my story above about a woman on birth control who is now 7 weeks pregnant. they warn you when you have procedures done that it's not 100 % guaranteed. a few years ago a woman i ran into told me that, surprise, she was pregnant five years after a tubal. now, what did she do that was irresponsible? nothing.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Danzig

it's your opinion, but not a fact, that abortion is 'murder'. many disagree. some say life begins at conception, others say no. seeing as how roe v wade has existed for as long as it has, i'm not figuring that will change. there've been opportunities over the years for the supreme court to overturn the law; it hasn't happened. i doubt it ever will.
and i'd say many who support the ability to choose do so because they don't want people minding their business, and feel the same towards others.
and yes, prevention is all well and good, but not foolproof. no doubt you saw my story above about a woman on birth control who is now 7 weeks pregnant. they warn you when you have procedures done that it's not 100 % guaranteed. a few years ago a woman i ran into told me that, surprise, she was pregnant five years after a tubal. now, what did she do that was irresponsible? nothing.

You could be right about Roe v. Wade. Maybe abortion will slowly wither away like Big Tobacco has. Less of the population smoke now than ever, and tobacco has remained legal. The education of the people about the negatives of tobacco smoking has done a lot to reduce that. In my generation, very few of teenagers I knew smoked. Some still do, it might never go to zero, but it is a hell of a lot less than it used to be.

If the view of "life begins at conception" pollenates as I hope it does, people will simply not opt for it as often.

There will always be exceptions, nothing is foolproof, but it would be a great start if the 95% or so of abortions that are stemming from absolute non-preparedness are eliminated.

If it was my decision, I'd have the guts to end it. My action would be unpopular with close to half the current population, but in 30 years or so several million individuals under 30 might appreciate it.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by joeydb

You could be right about Roe v. Wade. Maybe abortion will slowly wither away like Big Tobacco has. Less of the population smoke now than ever, and tobacco has remained legal. The education of the people about the negatives of tobacco smoking has done a lot to reduce that. In my generation, very few of teenagers I knew smoked. Some still do, it might never go to zero, but it is a hell of a lot less than it used to be.

If the view of "life begins at conception" pollenates as I hope it does, people will simply not opt for it as often.

There will always be exceptions, nothing is foolproof, but it would be a great start if the 95% or so of abortions that are stemming from absolute non-preparedness are eliminated.

If it was my decision, I'd have the guts to end it. My action would be unpopular with close to half the current population, but in 30 years or so several million individuals under 30 might appreciate it.

Joey your arguments are very passionate however they read like a pro-life flyer including the inflammatory language. You have trained well.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by jms62

Joey your arguments are very passionate however they read like a pro-life flyer including the inflammatory language. You have trained well.

I guess the passion tends to colorize my language. And unfortunately, e-mail and postings cannot convey the inflection and intonations with which one makes his points. As I pointed out above, my most frequently used "inflammatory" word, murder, is not inaccurate for life beginning at conception and active means being taken thereafter to destroy the cell(s). I'm not necessarily angry or passionate every time I say "murder". It's just accurate given those philosphical points of departure.

The pro-choicers tend to be inflammatory as well, though maybe not to the same degree since the Court has ruled in their favor. If, Roe is eventually overturned, you'll see a reversal in those roles.

Nobody "trained" me. I've never attended any pro-life functions, rallies, demonstrations. The views on either side stem from where you think life begins. The rest just follows from there. If life does not begin at conception, as some would contend, then that indivdual would not have as much of a moral problem with abortion. And their views, if expressed passionately, would read as a pro-choice flyer.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by joeydb

I guess the passion tends to colorize my language. And unfortunately, e-mail and postings cannot convey the inflection and intonations with which one makes his points. As I pointed out above, my most frequently used "inflammatory" word, murder, is not inaccurate for life beginning at conception and active means being taken thereafter to destroy the cell(s). I'm not necessarily angry or passionate every time I say "murder". It's just accurate given those philosphical points of departure.

The pro-choicers tend to be inflammatory as well, though maybe not to the same degree since the Court has ruled in their favor. If, Roe is eventually overturned, you'll see a reversal in those roles.

Nobody "trained" me. I've never attended any pro-life functions, rallies, demonstrations. The views on either side stem from where you think life begins. The rest just follows from there. If life does not begin at conception, as some would contend, then that indivdual would not have as much of a moral problem with abortion. And their views, if expressed passionately, would read as a pro-choice flyer.

joey... You often post about Obama and the soaring deficit but have no problem with the Tens of Billions of taxpayer dollars spent debating this issue that was resolved nearly 40 years ago. How do you reconcile that? Is it ok to spend unabated on things that you care about yet wrong to spend money trying to keep the unemployed afloat while Big Business sells the country down the river?

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by jms62

joey... You often post about Obama and the soaring deficit but have no problem with the Tens of Billions of taxpayer dollars spent debating this issue that was resolved nearly 40 years ago. How do you reconcile that? Is it ok to spend unabated on things that you care about yet wrong to spend money trying to keep the unemployed afloat while Big Business sells the country down the river?

The tens of billions would not be necessary if people managed their own affairs responsibly, including the decisions on if and when to have children, and preparing and preventing when one does not want to get pregnant.

The issue clearly was not resolved since it has hovered around a 50/50 split in polling for the entire 38 years.

Besides, it takes many many chunks of 10 billion to make 1.6 trillion, doesn't it?

[jms62]

Originally Posted by joeydb

The tens of billions would not be necessary if people managed their own affairs responsibly, including the decisions on if and when to have children, and preparing and preventing when one does not want to get pregnant.

The issue clearly was not resolved since it has hovered around a 50/50 split in polling for the entire 38 years.

Besides, it takes many many chunks of 10 billion to make 1.6 trillion, doesn't it?

A typical self centered response... Every Billion spent on things you agree with is inconsequential in the big picture yet every Million spent on things you don't agree with is a huge deal.