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  #1  
Old 08-05-2014, 02:34 PM
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Cannon Shell Cannon Shell is offline
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Originally Posted by Danzig View Post
dutrow got a ten year ban as a warning to other trainers. that's how the powers that be do things, they use someone as an example, in hopes it scares the others into doing the right thing-or less of the wrong thing.
I don't believe that he was given a 10 year ban as a warning regardless of how they framed it. I believe they supported this extreme ban because they wanted to justify their own existence and remain in their jobs by answering the number 1 criticism of regulators, that they were too easy on repeat offenders.

Dutrow gave them plenty of ammunition to use against him.
Rick is a likable guy. People think that the "juice" trainers are all sinister douchbags when a lot of the supposed good guys are just that. However that confuses personality with wrongdoing.

What escapes most people is that many of the juice guy owners seem to do just fine when they move onto making the next juice guy. Now they have even smartened up and are changing the stable names every time the heat comes.
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Old 08-05-2014, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Cannon Shell View Post
I don't believe that he was given a 10 year ban as a warning regardless of how they framed it. I believe they supported this extreme ban because they wanted to justify their own existence and remain in their jobs by answering the number 1 criticism of regulators, that they were too easy on repeat offenders.

Dutrow gave them plenty of ammunition to use against him.
Rick is a likable guy. People think that the "juice" trainers are all sinister douchbags when a lot of the supposed good guys are just that. However that confuses personality with wrongdoing.

What escapes most people is that many of the juice guy owners seem to do just fine when they move onto making the next juice guy. Now they have even smartened up and are changing the stable names every time the heat comes.
Who are some of the "nice juice" guys?
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  #3  
Old 08-05-2014, 08:34 PM
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Who are some of the "nice juice" guys?
Mike Lerman
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  #4  
Old 08-07-2014, 05:04 AM
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Thoroughbred Horsemen’s Associations: Lasix Issue Already Debated and Settled
by Press Release | 08.06.2014 | 2:01pm

We have been asked to comment on the Press Release issued on behalf of the group of trainers who propose the elimination of “race day medications” on January 1, 2016, but who support the adoption of the new uniform medication system of 26 controlled therapeutic medications being enacted throughout the racing industry.

It is quite obvious that the proposal and its timing are part of a thinly disguised and carefully orchestrated effort that is now playing out and will continue to do so over the next week by the opponents of the permitted use of lasix (furosemide). The industry can expect to be lectured once again by the opponents of lasix, who apparently will pursue federal intervention in our sport if we do not acquiesce to their view. It is designed to revive a divisive issue that the industry has already debated at great length and settled. It will polarize the industry, cripple the implementation of the uniform medication and drug testing program and put the industry at war with itself once again.

It appears, based on their Press Release and comments attributed to them in various media reports, that some of the trainers who were signatories are either uninformed or have been misled regarding the industry’s current uniform medication and drug testing program. First, there are not “multiple permitted race day medications”—the only medication permitted on race day is lasix. Second, those who suggest there has been an absence of a reasonable conversation on the subject are mistaken. Nothing could be further from the truth. We remind everyone that the industry engaged in an extensive and terribly divisive debate about lasix and race day medication several years ago under similar circumstances that culminated in an International Summit on Race Day Medication at Belmont Park in June 2011. Organized by the Jockey Club, NTRA and AAEP because the industry was consumed by the polarizing debate, the Summit brought together international scientists and experts, representatives of every industry organization and racetrack covering every constituency, individual breeders, and owners and trainers to facilitate an understanding of this complex issue, allow for discussion and debate and to hopefully bring an end to the polarizing debate.

We participated, as did other individuals and organizations representing every segment of the industry and every point of view on the issue. It was clear that there was neither support for the elimination of lasix nor a phased-in prohibition. To the contrary, there was broad-based consensus that the best approach was the to continue and further enhance the strict industry regulatory controls regarding the use and administration of lasix currently in place throughout the entire industry in North America. These protocols were deemed to be in the best interests of the health and safety of the horse, provided a level playing field for all participants, was voluntary, and was totally transparent and in the best interests of the betting public. Finally, while the signatories purport to give their support for the adoption of the new uniform system consisting of 26 controlled therapeutic medications, perhaps they are unaware that lasix is one of the 26 medications.

Our associations collectively, under the auspices of the THA umbrella, have consistently led the reforms in medication and drug testing that have been implemented in the past two decades. We have been and will always be committed to the welfare of the horse, the integrity of our sport, and providing a level playing field for all participants and our bettors. We collectively represent thousands of honest, hard working and dedicated horsemen (including the 25 trainers and their owners who are promoting the ban), backstretch workers and those in the many support businesses whose livelihoods depend on a strong industry at every level, not just the elite. We are their voice.

While we respect that there are, have been and will always be differing opinions on the use of medication in racing, in particular lasix, our memberships overwhelmingly support the current system, see nothing that has changed in the past 3 years to alter their view and have been quite vocal about it to us the past several days. We want them, and you, to know that we will continue to strongly and vigorously advocate on their behalf to oppose any change in current policy and practice, absent scientific evidence to the contrary or breakthroughs that allow for the horse to otherwise be protected.

Alan Foreman, Chairman, THA
Rick Violette, Pres., THA; NY THA
Richard Meyer, MD THA
John Forbes, NJ THA
Michael Gorham, DEL THA
Sal Debunda, PA THA
Michael Campbell, IL THA
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  #5  
Old 08-07-2014, 08:22 AM
freddymo freddymo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell View Post
I don't believe that he was given a 10 year ban as a warning regardless of how they framed it. I believe they supported this extreme ban because they wanted to justify their own existence and remain in their jobs by answering the number 1 criticism of regulators, that they were too easy on repeat offenders.

Dutrow gave them plenty of ammunition to use against him.
Rick is a likable guy. People think that the "juice" trainers are all sinister douchbags when a lot of the supposed good guys are just that. However that confuses personality with wrongdoing.

What escapes most people is that many of the juice guy owners seem to do just fine when they move onto making the next juice guy. Now they have even smartened up and are changing the stable names every time the heat comes.
You have a lot of highly skilled trainer at every track. As in any other walk of life success does not make you a good or a bad person, it just makes you successful at your trade, nothing more nothing less.
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  #6  
Old 08-07-2014, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by freddymo View Post
You have a lot of highly skilled trainer at every track. As in any other walk of life success does not make you a good or a bad person, it just makes you successful at your trade, nothing more nothing less.
There are plenty of "highly skilled" trainers whose skills seem to come and go.
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Old 08-07-2014, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Cannon Shell View Post
There are plenty of "highly skilled" trainers whose skills seem to come and go.
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  #8  
Old 08-07-2014, 12:09 PM
freddymo freddymo is offline
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Originally Posted by Cannon Shell View Post
There are plenty of "highly skilled" trainers whose skills seem to come and go.
The brilliant Jimmy Jerkins is on fire after a prolonged absence from the top, same with Matz etc. Cyclical sport like many others.
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  #9  
Old 08-07-2014, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by freddymo View Post
The brilliant Jimmy Jerkins is on fire after a prolonged absence from the top, same with Matz etc. Cyclical sport like many others.
Matz is 15% on the year. He wins 15% almost every year.
Jerkens is averaging 3 wins a month.

Is this really "on fire"?
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  #10  
Old 08-07-2014, 04:43 PM
freddymo freddymo is offline
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Originally Posted by Cannon Shell View Post
Matz is 15% on the year. He wins 15% almost every year.
Jerkens is averaging 3 wins a month.

Is this really "on fire"?

11 James A. Jerkens 26 9 1 2 $490,324 35% 12 46%

Belmont

SPA plus another winner today not included

8 James A. Jerkens 12 4 0 2

last 39 starters 14 win 1 second and 4 thirds thats A LOT better then the previous 52 weeks
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  #11  
Old 08-07-2014, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by freddymo View Post
11 James A. Jerkens 26 9 1 2 $490,324 35% 12 46%

Belmont

SPA plus another winner today not included

8 James A. Jerkens 12 4 0 2

last 39 starters 14 win 1 second and 4 thirds thats A LOT better then the previous 52 weeks
What exactly does this prove?
Todays winner was a Sky mesa NYB that was 3/5 Morning line in a 6 horse field
Yesterdays winner was More than Ready NYB 1st timer in a race where the ML fav was coming off of a 43 beyer.
VE day is a late blooming 3yo
Wicked Strong is a proven good horse.

A really good trainer winning with these types of horses that he has trained their entire careers rarely raises any suspicion for obvious reasons.

I'm not sure what your point is outside of pushing the Dutrow agenda. Yeah we get it, he is a good horseman, he didnt break a lot of horses down, etc, etc. Did he deserve the extreme penalty that he received? Probably not but lets not act like he was some saint.
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  #12  
Old 08-07-2014, 04:46 PM
freddymo freddymo is offline
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Originally Posted by Cannon Shell View Post
Matz is 15% on the year. He wins 15% almost every year.
Jerkens is averaging 3 wins a month.

Is this really "on fire"?
Matz;s last 45 days have been very hot as well
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  #13  
Old 08-07-2014, 05:04 PM
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Matz;s last 45 days have been very hot as well
SSS
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