25 trainers urge Lasix-ban; THA says issue debated, decided

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

In a sport that's aces at focusing on minute immaterial bullshit and ignoring real issues, this takes the cake. Well done guys. Let's ban Lasix and still allow Rick Dutrow's girlfriend to move horses up 20+ points while he's on "suspension" without batting an eye.

I'm just so tired of the ridiculous facade that we give two dumps about drugging horses. Readthebyline ran a 108 Beyer under wraps off a 72 after being claimed, but Lasix is the scourge we have to get rid of. Give me a freaking break.

How many horses died under Nevin's care or tested positive? It's ridiculous many of you just don't understand how good a trainer Dutrow(all of them) really are.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by freddymo

How many horses died under Nevin's care or tested positive? It's ridiculous many of you just don't understand how good a trainer Dutrow(all of them) really are.

You as an owner is exactly what is wrong with the sport. Being able to employ an alchemist to keep 1 step ahead of testing doesn't make a good trainer. As ATEAM said allowing Dutrow to train via proxy is an unbelievable slap in the face of the betting public. You want to ban drugs from the game? How about if a trainer is banned any horse's under his care at the time of the infraction are banned for the duration of the ban from the jurisdiction they are in. The only way we are going to get rid of the cheats is to hit them in their pocketbook. Owners instead of looking the other way would then have a reason to pressure these trainers to play it straight.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by jms62

You as an owner is exactly what is wrong with the sport. Being able to employ an alchemist to keep 1 step ahead of testing doesn't make a good trainer. As ATEAM said allowing Dutrow to train via proxy is an unbelievable slap in the face of the betting public. You want to ban drugs from the game? How about if a trainer is banned any horse's under his care at the time of the infraction are banned for the duration of the ban from the jurisdiction they are in. The only way we are going to get rid of the cheats is to hit them in their pocketbook. Owners instead of looking the other way would then have a reason to pressure these trainers to play it straight.

If I had horses again I would love to have either Dutrow train my horse/s and I would have a shot to win at a tough game. It's very easy to sit behind your computer and throw darts. Its another thing to have facts that substantiate any of the things you suggest. IF a banned trainer is helping his paramour to become a thriving professional from abroad how the heck can anyone discourage or abbreviate that? Imagine a dis barred brilliant lawyer who was disbarred for the same BS type stuff Dutrow was banned for and then consulted other less talented lawyers who were members of the bar same thing right? What's a judge going to say "Freddymo you couldnt have thought of this defense because you are a newbie idiot so it must be Cannonshell's training of you and since he is barred from law you cant practice is craft?

I really find it amazing how people just assume they know these folks are cheating but CANT determine or suggest how, somehow i just dont think that is remotely OK

[jms62]

Originally Posted by freddymo

If I had horses again I would love to have either Dutrow train my horse/s and I would have a shot to win at a tough game. It's very easy to sit behind your computer and throw darts. Its another thing to have facts that substantiate any of the things you suggest. IF a banned trainer is helping his paramour to become a thriving professional from abroad how the heck can anyone discourage or abbreviate that? Imagine a dis barred brilliant lawyer who was disbarred for the same BS type stuff Dutrow was banned for and then consulted other less talented lawyers who were members of the bar same thing right? What's a judge going to say "Freddymo you couldnt have thought of this defense because you are a newbie idiot so it must be Cannonshell's training of you and since he is barred from law you cant practice is craft?

I really find it amazing how people just assume they know these folks are cheating but CANT determine or suggest how, somehow i just dont think that is remotely OK

Thanks. I couldn't possibly make MY point any better than you just did.

[golfer]

Originally Posted by freddymo

How many horses died under Nevin's care or tested positive? It's ridiculous many of you just don't understand how good a trainer Dutrow(all of them) really are.

While horses not Dying under Nevin/Dutrow's care is certainly a good thing, Isn't it safe to say the lack of testing positive is borderline meaningless, considering what they do and don't test for? Not that too many people even know what exactly that might be?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by golfer

While horses not Dying under Nevin/Dutrow's care is certainly a good thing, Isn't it safe to say the lack of testing positive is borderline meaningless, considering what they do and don't test for? Not that too many people even know what exactly that might be?

Its safe to say you are assuming a lot and have absolutely nothing to gauge your post on save good results by horses under Nevin's care. Is Motion or Matz cheating now that their stock is excelling or because they train for higher net worth owners and have "better stock" do we just say the horses are just fulfilling their genetic"sales ring" potential.

[asudevil]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Its safe to say you are assuming a lot and have absolutely nothing to gauge your post on save good results by horses under Nevin's care. Is Motion or Matz cheating now that their stock is excelling or because they train for higher net worth owners and have "better stock" do we just say the horses are just fulfilling their genetic"sales ring" potential.

I think it's safe to say that you like coming on here to purposely be a prick-contrarian and ruffle people's feathers. Sure, trumpet the so called accomplishments of all the unsavory pieces of dung in racing. You're gonna mention to someone about sitting behind a keyboard with an opinion?? That's immensely hypocritical.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by asudevil

I think it's safe to say that you like coming on here to purposely be a prick-contrarian and ruffle people's feathers. Sure, trumpet the so called accomplishments of all the unsavory pieces of dung in racing. You're gonna mention to someone about sitting behind a keyboard with an opinion?? That's immensely hypocritical.

I have the highest regard for Richard Dutrow, I am positive he is regarded as a terrific horseman and perhaps the very best at determining what is hindering a horses ability to run well. I am quite sure he has very few equals in this capacity. Moreover why in the world would anyone not like the work of his paramour, what has she done wrong, maybe she is doing the same great job as Linda Rice and the other successful people who have claimed horses from other connections and improved their running? Palace just won a G1 he was a 20 claimer, Big macher, that Moonshine horse,etc etc. Where is all the outrage for those types? Bottom line its easy to throw stones when you have absolutely no evidence why not save it for when people truly are cheating vs. doing their job well. I dont know why Matz who couldnt get arrested for years is successful again do you, I assume he is training better horses or refined his craft which is his job. I dont assume he is cheating. Apparently people like to discriminate when it convenient I dont

[golfer]

Originally Posted by freddymo

I have the highest regard for Richard Dutrow, I am positive he is regarded as a terrific horseman and perhaps the very best at determining what is hindering a horses ability to run well. I am quite sure he has very few equals in this capacity. Moreover why in the world would anyone not like the work of his paramour, what has she done wrong, maybe she is doing the same great job as Linda Rice and the other successful people who have claimed horses from other connections and improved their running? Palace just won a G1 he was a 20 claimer, Big macher, that Moonshine horse,etc etc. Where is all the outrage for those types? Bottom line its easy to throw stones when you have absolutely no evidence why not save it for when people truly are cheating vs. doing their job well. I dont know why Matz who couldnt get arrested for years is successful again do you, I assume he is training better horses or refined his craft which is his job. I dont assume he is cheating. Apparently people like to discriminate when it convenient I dont

Freddy, I'm guessing you either did or would have defended both Lance Armstrong, and say, Mark Mcgwire? No, I don't have the inside scoop, because as an unimportant, piss ant who simply BETS, I have no right to any of that information, as far as the industry is concerned. So I have NO CHOICE but to assume. And I will say this, if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck, I don't need a ****ing PHD to make the educated guess it's a ****ing DUCK. Sure, I may be wrong every now and again, but I'm willing and have no other choice but to take that chance.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by golfer

Freddy, I'm guessing you either did or would have defended both Lance Armstrong, and say, Mark Mcgwire? No, I don't have the inside scoop, because as an unimportant, piss ant who simply BETS, I have no right to any of that information, as far as the industry is concerned. So I have NO CHOICE but to assume. And I will say this, if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck, I don't need a ****ing PHD to make the educated guess it's a ****ing DUCK. Sure, I may be wrong every now and again, but I'm willing and have no other choice but to take that chance.

So I guess the ducks that were claimers toiling to run that were claimed like Sadlers two time G1 winner, Rice's Palace and 5 other claimers that went on recently to win graded stakes are all cheaters, because the horse are elite now...understood thanks for the update respectfully said

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by asudevil

I think it's safe to say that you like coming on here to purposely be a prick-contrarian and ruffle people's feathers. Sure, trumpet the so called accomplishments of all the unsavory pieces of dung in racing. You're gonna mention to someone about sitting behind a keyboard with an opinion?? That's immensely hypocritical.

that's the thing, every trainer, good or bad has friends, family, associates, acquaintances. and they will defend the bad to the bitter end.
not enough to have scads of violations, suspensions, getting caught whilst on suspension having contact with their barns, etc.
the sport needs cleaning up, but it's impossible. you have trainers getting HOF nominations, spending a year on the sideline for cobra venom and hired right back...why? because they're 'good trainers'.
there are good trainers, who don't have all the repeated overages, positives, etc. but some people want to win at all costs, and they find plenty of trainers that will do that for them.
some of us want a level playing field-others don't give a rats behind about it. and that's how these trainers get or stay in business, they have fans.

everyone saying they want a clean sport might as well give up, it won't happen. all you can do is wager accordingly.