Saratoga Handle And Att Decline

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Granted, handle should have been up given the terrific weather and overall number of races. There's no reasonable explanation for it at this point

This was the only point I was trying to make.

[blackthroatedwind]

For those that are interested, handle was up double digits last year, which made gains this year extremely hard to achieve. Everything is relative.

My burying the fans, as Chuck suggested, was ultimately too much to overcome.

All kidding aside, take a look at the daily handle, the actual numbers, and every Saturday as well. Each time I would look at last year's numbers as we waited for this year's final tally, I was taken aback by the kind of numbers that we were up against.

[Cannon Shell]

I believe players reading of name tags as opposed to wagering cost them .004% of on track handle.

Was the Yankees attendance up or down last year?

Not sure? No one cares... Not sure why anyone cares about Saratoga's unless it is way up or way down. Drawing conclusions from overall numbers with no context taken is a waste of time. Of course most of our fearless racing leaders and dopey media members make a big deal out of it

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

For those that are interested, handle was up double digits last year, which made gains this year extremely hard to achieve. Everything is relative.

My burying the fans, as Chuck suggested, was ultimately too much to overcome.

All kidding aside, take a look at the daily handle, the actual numbers, and every Saturday as well. Each time I would look at last year's numbers as we waited for this year's final tally, I was taken aback by the kind of numbers that we were up against.

Fair enough but wasn't last year the first year they did the Friday opening and the record number of days, which is why last year was up so much on a % basis?....The per race totals as I watch finishing totals look much less than the mid 2000 pools I used to see in terms of win place and show totals. Maybe people are playing more exotics and multirace wagers. I'm sure that's part of it.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Fair enough but wasn't last year the first year they did the Friday opening and the record number of days, which is why last year was up so much on a % basis?....The per race totals as I watch finishing totals look much less than the mid 2000 pools I used to see in terms of win place and show totals. Maybe people are playing more exotics and multirace wagers. I'm sure that's part of it.

No and don't be.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

No and don't be.

So to be clear, the numbers this year were lower per day in handle compared to 2005, which by the way was lower than 2004 by 5% b/c of a gambling scandal....http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/06/sp...cing.html?_r=0

10 years later and no appreciable increase in daily handle for Saratoga and there is no concern and we can spin this anyway we want? All I said in the initial post was that it was a disappointment. I have no problem with NYRA and love Saratoga. But again it is nothing but defensive reactions regarding what is a weakish number. Just say that.

[randallscott35]

And this comes off a spring/summer meet at Belmont with attendance down a staggering 14% year on year and handle on track which includes AQ/+rewards players down 10%....but if we don't mention it I assume it won't matter.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

And this comes off a spring/summer meet at Belmont with attendance down a staggering 14% year on year and handle on track which includes AQ/+rewards players down 10%....but if we don't mention it I assume it won't matter.

Randall, surely a little thought might help you understand the reason for the decline in attendance at Belmont. Here's a hint, check Belmont Day for each year.

I'm not going to have any debates with you here. I am at more than an unfair disadvantage, and throughout your history here it has been evident that you have your beliefs and they won't be changed. I wish you only the best, at the races as well as in life.

[PSH]

I play mainly turf racing and it seemed because of the lack of rain during the meet up to the last weekend made the turf course almost unplayable unless you had the ability to pick a lone speed type. I know it had an impact on off the pace types and I certainly passed a lot of races...
Probably just my issues...

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by PSH

I play mainly turf racing and it seemed because of the lack of rain during the meet up to the last weekend made the turf course almost unplayable unless you had the ability to pick a lone speed type. I know it had an impact on off the pace types and I certainly passed a lot of races...
Probably just my issues...

This was the case for about a week later in the meet, and was really more about being inside than speed. Hopefully we can take advantage of these trips at Belmont this Fall.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

So to be clear, the numbers this year were lower per day in handle compared to 2005, which by the way was lower than 2004 by 5% b/c of a gambling scandal....http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/06/sp...cing.html?_r=0

10 years later and no appreciable increase in daily handle for Saratoga and there is no concern and we can spin this anyway we want? All I said in the initial post was that it was a disappointment. I have no problem with NYRA and love Saratoga. But again it is nothing but defensive reactions regarding what is a weakish number. Just say that.

Considering that overall handle numbers industrywide have dropped significantly in 10 years isn't an expectation that Saratoga's numbers should have increased odd?

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Considering that overall handle numbers industrywide have dropped significantly in 10 years isn't an expectation that Saratoga's numbers should have increased odd?

Nope. I think the point is more about what the future of racing is going to look like. The fact that Saratoga is not immune is surely relevant.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Considering that overall handle numbers industrywide have dropped significantly in 10 years isn't an expectation that Saratoga's numbers should have increased odd?

a good summer though per DRF

Handle on U.S. races up 4.7% in August, according to Equibase. Purses up 5.5%, and race days up 1%.