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#1
09-26-2012, 04:39 PM
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If you think that "nothing has changed" between November 2008 and now, I beg of you - please do not vote. Back to the subject: Nobody is disputing the debt has gone up. It would go up if we didn't have any president at all and didn't spend a dime. That the RWNJ, including Joey and ARyan, have fallen for and keep repeating the blatent falsehood that Obama's policies caused all of it is why this country is currently an international joke - because that superior thinking has given us Mitt Romney as a candidate for president of the United States, and the rest of the adult world wonders what the hell ever happened to America? Worse health care of any first world nation, only FW nation without universal care, most expensive health care of any first world nation, highest infant death rate, half our country near or at poverty, failing behind 10-20 other countries in reading, science, math, a religious taliban forcing their morality laws on everyone else, a political group denigrating and blaming the poor, homeless, starving. But hey! Let's look at Herman Cain and Michelle Bachmann for President! And hope to still be taken seriously in this world??
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"Have the clean racing people run any ads explaining that giving a horse a Starbucks and a chocolate poppyseed muffin for breakfast would likely result in a ten year suspension for the trainer?" - Dr. Andrew Roberts 
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#2
09-26-2012, 04:58 PM
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Hey let's look at a one term Senator with zero real world experience or any executive or military history to run the largest economy and military in the world. C'mon, comparing Romney to Far right psychos is wrong and you know it, he was Gov of the most liberal state in the union, this is called going along to get along. It is too bad we are unable to compete with the other glorious western nations and their health and welfare systems as they grapple with 15-20% unemployment and rioting in the streets. If only we could grasp what it is that makes them so great and apply those concepts here, then we would not be an international joke. We could line up with most of Europe and beg Germany to save us too, sounds great, lets do that.
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don't run out of ammo.
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#3
09-26-2012, 05:01 PM
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And if you want to see rioting in the streets, please, elect Mitt Romney and the Republican European-style austerity financial plan - we'll be right there with Europe *** Or look at the massive financial misbehavior of the Bush administration, and wonder why we are no longer even in the Top Twenty of the top nations of the world in all the things Bush ignored and fought against while he was busy starting wars to kill a generation of Americans. Oh - and be sure and vote to overturn the basic start to healthcare reform and education reform Obama started - and get angry over the First Lady and her health initiatives for our kids - getting rid of that will pull us out of the gutter on healthcare and education, for sure! *** While Europe dealt with the recession and financial crisis via austerity, our country did a stimulus. Gee - who is doing better today?
__________________
"Have the clean racing people run any ads explaining that giving a horse a Starbucks and a chocolate poppyseed muffin for breakfast would likely result in a ten year suspension for the trainer?" - Dr. Andrew Roberts
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#4
09-26-2012, 05:54 PM
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The deficit was 10.6 Trillion the day Bush left office.
Again, simple mathematics seems to complicate your argument. Obama inherited a deficit of 10.6 T, only spent 1.4T (your data) and somehow the deficit is now 16 Trillion. How do you explain the 4 Trillion dollars added over the past 3 years? Is that all service on the debt? 25% interest? Did Obama accidentally put the 1.4 Trillion on his American Express? Your phony charts aren't fooling anyone. He is responsible for a 5 Trillion dollars increase to the National debt in 3 years. Period. Fact.
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#5
09-27-2012, 08:22 AM
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__________________
don't run out of ammo.
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#6
09-27-2012, 06:00 PM
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The right kind of math is welcome, and you trying to deny that the debt Bush left us is not still costing us daily is beyond absurd. Bush didn't wipe out his debt the day he left office, did he? No matter who was president, the Bush debt present on 1/20/2008 continues until about 2020.
__________________
"Have the clean racing people run any ads explaining that giving a horse a Starbucks and a chocolate poppyseed muffin for breakfast would likely result in a ten year suspension for the trainer?" - Dr. Andrew Roberts
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#7
09-27-2012, 03:24 PM
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Its called "obamanomics". blame the guy before you eventhough you continued to govern the EXACT same way as the guy before you.
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#8
09-27-2012, 06:05 PM
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That is, that's the answer of people who actually care to be discerning and serious and truthful about the causes of our debt, that is. Quote:
__________________
"Have the clean racing people run any ads explaining that giving a horse a Starbucks and a chocolate poppyseed muffin for breakfast would likely result in a ten year suspension for the trainer?" - Dr. Andrew Roberts
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#9
09-27-2012, 06:56 PM
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Naw, you're wrong on the "simple mathematics" part, you can't do that - your assumption of how that works is wrong. First, should mention that we are both using deficit and debt interchangeably, and we are both wrong to do that - the deficit is the difference between what we take and in and what we spend annually, then the accumulation of that (which Obama has decreased a bit, his federal spending is indeed the lowest since Reagan); and the debt is what we owe. But we are talking about the same thing - what the country owes in total, right? Back to the "simple assumption" thing, your math is way off, you are trying to simplistically compare entirely different things. The debt was 10.6 trillion at end of Bush, is now 16 trillion. Yes, it is. 5.6 trillion of that was added during the past 4 years. Yes, it was. BTW - if Bushes policies only cost us a little over $5 trillion, why was the debt 10.6 trillion at the end of his term? If you can answer that, you'll know why you can't blame Obama for 100% of the debt that has added on during his term. BUT - to get back, the question is where did that 5.6 trillion come from? You say it is all due to Obama. No, it is not. First, much of that is continued ongoing costs from Bush unpaid-for wars, unpaid-for drug giveaway, and the ongoing cost of Bush massively cutting our income via the tax cuts, while continuing to spend the same amount of money. And yes, when we loan ourselves money, there is tremendous debt service on that, and it compounds exponentially. So even though Bush left office 1/20/2008, the cost of his policies, the debt we pay on that, continues to rise - the Iran war got more expensive over the past 10 years, Afghanistan, etc (and yes, Obama gets credit for the cost of the surge, etc) But look again at the orange-red-blue Debt Chart graph in the post above - see the dates? Obama's policy costs do not even kick in until his first budget in 2009, the cost of that coming afterwards - see all the rise in Bush polices from 2008 to 2009-2010? Obama isn't responsible for that portion of the debt rising even though his term started - and a lot of that old stuff is ongoing even past Obama's term (if it ends in November) and it's still Bush's stuff, left for the next president. Obama's policies over the past cost 1.4 Trillion, but much of that was paid for (the ACA is virtually "deficit neutral" as scored by CBO), some of course was not - so you can't simply add cost of policies together. to get debt. So, to attribute the portion of our debt that is due to Obama, due to his policies, you must be able to list the portion of Obama policies (and that includes a portion of the cost of expansion of Bush tax cuts, of course - but NOT all of that, of course) and (Obama's cost of surge in Afghanistan). Right? We should be able to list the exact Obama policies (all together of which cost $1.4 trillion until 2017) that were put on a charge card, and not self-funded, that will cost us increased debt service in the last two years of his term and ongoing until it's paid for. And that is clearly NOT $5.7 trillion. Obama has only "cost" us $1.4 trillion, that's absurd, and much of Obama's costs haven't even kicked in yet (and the vast majority are paid for, not put on a charge card) To attribute that $5.7 trillion all to Obama is simple, factually, obviously false and simplistic. Quote:
The charts are from figures supplied by the well-respected and non-partisan Congressional Budget office, no, they are not in any way whatsoever "phoney", that's an absurd charge. Here's fact on what each of the last two presidents policies have cost - some was paid for, much for Bush, noticeably and regrettably, was NOT. 
__________________
"Have the clean racing people run any ads explaining that giving a horse a Starbucks and a chocolate poppyseed muffin for breakfast would likely result in a ten year suspension for the trainer?" - Dr. Andrew Roberts
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#10
09-27-2012, 08:21 AM
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__________________
don't run out of ammo.
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Hybrid Mode
