Flow chart we can agree on

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

I am suggesting that people hiring illegals and paying them cash should be so very afraid of the consequences of that crime that they would be lining up outside the welfare and unemployment offices to hire legal citizens.

We already have laws that make it clearly illegal to hire illegal aliens, and every employer is required by law to check alien status before hiring.

If employers, American citizens, choose deliberately to break the law, if they are so disrespectful of our laws, they are already subject to punishment.

What punishment, over and above the current, do you think that punishment should be raised to, to prevent American employers from choosing to break the law? You and your boss are clearly not afraid of breaking the current laws - what would make you so afraid you'd stop your payroll tax evasion and law breaking in hiring? You say that is what should stop you - so, what would stop you?

So once again it is the enforcement of the laws that already exist that is the issue, not the laws themselves. If only we could use the rules that have been created to stamp out these criminals, all criminals for that matter.
When did I break the law? Never hired anyone illegally.
Read things how you wish and comment away just like always.

No. It is people such as you and your boss, that enable illegal aliens to work here, because you choose to break our current law and not check alien status before you hire.

You pay those people cash without checking their alien status? Aside from your deliberate payroll tax evasion that hurts me, personally, and my fellow citizens, by denying our treasury income, because you are a tax cheat, you are enabling illegals to work here.

You can try to slide out of that however you want, but employers such as you and your boss - who hire outside our law and pay cash - are a major reason illegal aliens (those without faked social security numbers) get employment in America and can stay here.

And you saying you do it because the laws that punish you don't scare you enough to make you stop is beyond absurd.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Riot

We already have laws that make it clearly illegal to hire illegal aliens, and every employer is required by law to check alien status before hiring.

If employers, American citizens, choose deliberately to break the law, if they are so disrespectful of our laws, they are already subject to punishment.

What punishment, over and above the current, do you think that punishment should be raised to, to prevent American employers from choosing to break the law? You and your boss are clearly not afraid of breaking the current laws - what would make you so afraid you'd stop your payroll tax evasion and law breaking in hiring? You say that is what should stop you - so, what would stop you?




No. It is people such as you and your boss, that enable illegal aliens to work here, because you choose to break our current law and not check alien status before you hire.

You pay those people cash without checking their alien status? Aside from your deliberate payroll tax evasion that hurts me, personally, and my fellow citizens, by denying our treasury income, because you are a tax cheat, you are enabling illegals to work here.

You can try to slide out of that however you want, but employers such as you and your boss - who hire outside our law and pay cash - are a major reason illegal aliens (those without faked social security numbers) get employment in America and can stay here.

And you saying you do it because the laws that punish you don't scare you enough to make you stop is beyond absurd.

And still you cannot read. NOT FOR MY COMPANIES, over and over. Pointless. Another thread likely to die as a result of your reading comprehension. Shame no one ever gets to finish a discussion or debate around here.

[dellinger63]

Are illegals going to be required to obtain health insurance? Or are we going to treat them status quo? You know thru the ER.

BTW Legals who are being paid under the table to avoid having beni's cancelled are worse than illegals doing the same IMO.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Are illegals going to be required to obtain health insurance? Or are we going to treat them status quo? You know thru the ER.

BTW Legals who are being paid under the table to avoid having beni's cancelled are worse than illegals doing the same IMO.

illegals are not able to obtain insurance thru exchanges. i doubt the'd try anyway-why would they get themselves flagged like that?
and, again, a recent study said the 'er' thing is hogwash anyway. but facts can be pesky things.
and anyone being paid cash is doing a wrong, not any worse or better regardless of status.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Danzig

and anyone being paid cash is doing a wrong, not any worse or better regardless of status.

People being paid in cash to avoid taxes are stealing from the pot.

People being paid in cash to avoid taxes and still receive unemployment, food stamps, SSI etc. are stealing twice.

Get it now?

Since illegals aren't allowed to participate in the exchanges are they still able to send their illegal children to public school? And who pays for that?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

People being paid in cash to avoid taxes are stealing from the pot.

People being paid in cash to avoid taxes and still receive unemployment, food stamps, SSI etc. are stealing twice.

Get it now?

Since illegals aren't allowed to participate in the exchanges are they still able to send their illegal children to public school? And who pays for that?

what pot?
i understand exactly why people get paid cash, so you can hold the condescension.
in my opinion, it's the payer, not the receiver, who is most at fault. he makes out, as he hasn't got to pay matching ss, workers comp, etc, etc, etc. the employer is the one actually committing the crime. a worker paid in cash is getting no favors done for himself. it's when he doesn't claim his income that he then breaks a rule. you can't claim unemployment when there's no employment on record. and when he retires, he's in for a shock.
and i'd wager that the vast majority of people on assistance aren't working on the side, whether for cash or any other reason.
as for illegals and their children, i don't know what the actual numbers of illegal families are in country. seems that most migrant workers come alone, leaving families behind in their native country.
but yes, kids who attend class would be part of what the state uses to decide funding to each school.

[Riot]

Since illegals aren't allowed to participate in the exchanges are they still able to send their illegal children to public school? And who pays for that?

Illegals with fake social security numbers pay for it themselves.

Illegals without faked SS numbers, who are hired in situations like Clip Clops boss who doesn't bother to check status and just pays cash, have us paying for it.

Illegals of both stripes still pay local taxes when they buy groceries, etc.

And Clip Clop's boss is taking money out of our school systems (and all publicly-funded programs, including our military) in two ways: the taxes he should be paying on his employees, and the taxes his non-paying cash employees should be paying. And that doesn't matter if his employees are illegal or not. It's still deliberate tax evasion.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Are illegals going to be required to obtain health insurance? Or are we going to treat them status quo? You know thru the ER.

BTW Legals who are being paid under the table to avoid having beni's cancelled are worse than illegals doing the same IMO.

No, illegal aliens are illegal.

Illegals paid under the table can't get "beni's". Are you really so ignorant you don't know how government programs you constantly rail against work?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

And still you cannot read. NOT FOR MY COMPANIES, over and over. Pointless. Another thread likely to die as a result of your reading comprehension. Shame no one ever gets to finish a discussion or debate around here.

You admit your boss avoided paying taxes and avoided checking hires for alien status as the law requires. So what if you knew they were all college kids? I'm not doubting you did, or they were. They avoided paying taxes, too, and you and your boss enabled that. You went along with it, didn't you?

Your boss broke multiple laws here, and you know it.

And people like your boss breaking those laws, in the manner he did, enables illegal aliens who do not have fake social security numbers to work in the United States. He is part of the problem of "illegals". A big part.

He's also a tax evader that hurts you, me, and everyone else. And he enables his employees to tax-evade, too.

Stop whining and screaming about it and trying to blame me for pointing out the reality of a situation YOU posted about.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Riot

You admit your boss avoided paying taxes and avoided checking hires for alien status as the law requires. So what if you knew they were all college kids? I'm not doubting you did, or they were. They avoided paying taxes, too, and you and your boss enabled that. You went along with it, didn't you?

Your boss broke multiple laws here, and you know it.

And people like your boss breaking those laws, in the manner he did, enables illegal aliens who do not have fake social security numbers to work in the United States. He is part of the problem of "illegals". A big part.

He's also a tax evader that hurts you, me, and everyone else. And he enables his employees to tax-evade, too.

Stop whining and screaming about it and trying to blame me for pointing out the reality of a situation YOU posted about.

Reading comprehension classes. Please.

I hire college graduates. All citizens and tax payers.
I have worked in the industries I referenced earlier that are heavily populated by illegal day workers and have seen, and handed cash to illegal workers. I have no boss. I own my companies and do not practice this crime.

That said.
Try working in a kitchen and going to the owner of the restaurant and telling him that he is a criminal for hiring illegals to work the line. See if you get to keep your job. Then tell him you will report him to the authorities fully aware of the fact that nothing at all will happen from this reporting.
Do that while working in an Italian restaurant in NJ when you are 17 years old (and on the books) and let me know how that works out for you.
Or choose a concrete company in the same location, same scenario but now you are 19.
Or a landscaping company whose owner you know very well and has just given you your first management position at 21.

Your arguments are never based in any kind of reality.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

Reading comprehension classes. Please.

I hire college graduates. All citizens and tax payers.

I ask you to have the reading comprehension. I am discussing the situation with your boss, as you described it and participated in it. Not your companies you have now with you as the boss.

You said:

Those folks are paid daily in cash. I have paid them myself (though not for my companies)

And you said your boss gave you cash to pay them

When the boss handed me cash to give to the daily guys, I gave it to them,

Duh.

That you follow the law now, with your own companies, where your former boss did not, is a good thing.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Riot

I ask you to have the reading comprehension. I am discussing the situation with your boss, as you described it and participated in it. Not your companies you have now with you as the boss.

You said:


And you said your boss gave you cash to pay them.

Duh.

See above.

[Riot]

Clip Clip said:
That said.
Try working in a kitchen and going to the owner of the restaurant and telling him that he is a criminal for hiring illegals to work the line. See if you get to keep your job. Then tell him you will report him to the authorities fully aware of the fact that nothing at all will happen from this reporting.
Do that while working in an Italian restaurant in NJ when you are 17 years old (and on the books) and let me know how that works out for you.
Or choose a concrete company in the same location, same scenario but now you are 19.
Or a landscaping company whose owner you know very well and has just given you your first management position at 21.

Your arguments are never based in any kind of reality.

The reality is, as I said, it is American citizens who are deliberately breaking the law, and you scapegoating the illegals only, while making multiple excuses for American bosses breaking the law, is absurd.

The American citizen bosses who choose to deliberately break the law, and hire illegals who do not have faked ID (which protects a boss who checks according to the law), are the only reason those illegals are able to work in the US.

You defending such lawbreaking Americans is absurd.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Riot

The reality is, as I said, it is American citizens who are deliberately breaking the law, and you scapegoating the illegals only, while making multiple excuses for American bosses breaking the law, is absurd.

The American citizen bosses who choose to deliberately break the law, and hire illegals who do not have faked ID (which protects a boss who checks according to the law), are the only reason those illegals are able to work in the US.

You defending such lawbreaking Americans is absurd.

WRONG again.

"Absolutely, please suggest a punishment for those people. I would suggest something severe enough that they will hire Americans to do those jobs instead."

I am defending my decision to not report the people I worked for to an authority I knew would do nothing about it.

That is what I said, you chose not to answer my question (as per usual) and ignore (or fail to comprehend) the comment.