Kentucky's ongoing attempt to end racing in state proceeds..

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Humans are often stuck with needles during halftime of our most popular sport and no one seems upset about that.

Again, those that need it, sure. 99%, I don't think so. Even so, that is a contact sport so I'm not sure it is a good comparison. How about track and field. That seems A LOT more reasonable. How many of them are injected on the day of competition? 99%?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Again, those that need it, sure. 99%, I don't think so. Even so, that is a contact sport so I'm not sure it is a good comparison. How about track and field. That seems A LOT more reasonable. How many of them are injected on the day of competition? 99%?

What is track and field? Never heard of it...

I find it hard to understand that if you believe lasix is a performance enhancer that you would want a small percentage of horses to benefit. The entire reason that the standards were relaxed is that pretty much every horse has some degree of bleeding at some point. Well that and the racing commissions love to save money so it is easier to not have the state vet check every bleeding episode...

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

What is track and field? Never heard of it...

I find it hard to understand that if you believe lasix is a performance enhancer that you would want a small percentage of horses to benefit. The entire reason that the standards were relaxed is that pretty much every horse has some degree of bleeding at some point. Well that and the racing commissions love to save money so it is easier to not have the state vet check every bleeding episode...

Like I said, as a bettor, I don't care. All I am saying is it isn't the easy decision that both sides seem to think it is. I find it hard to believe that every horse has bleeding and that all bleeding, no matter how microscopic, is an issue.

Let me ask you this, while it does help with bleeding, doesn't dehydrating a horse before sending it out to race have some negative effects? I can't imagine there is another sport where the participant is dehydrated before competing.

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Let me ask you this, while it does help with bleeding, doesn't dehydrating a horse before sending it out to race have some negative effects? I can't imagine there is another sport where the participant is dehydrated before competing.

The very reason I pay no attention to weight assignments. How much water weight is shed by each horse? Sure drugs have slightly different effects on horses just like they do people.

[Riot]

The dehydration effect of 1 injection of lasix is only about .5 to 1.5% of body weight.

Rarely clinically significant or of concern, and it matches the body weight loss in horses overseas that do not get lasix and sweat more, losing buckets of weight in sweat.

When the veterinary medical community tells the racing industry that lasix should be allowed for the health and welfare of the race horse, you'd think they'd listen to the horse health professionals.

Sad some simply choose to simply ignore that.

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by Riot

The dehydration effect of 1 injection of lasix is only about .5 to 1.5% of body weight.

Rarely clinically significant or of concern, and it matches the body weight loss in horses overseas that do not get lasix and sweat more, losing buckets of weight in sweat.

When the veterinary medical community tells the racing industry that lasix should be allowed for the health and welfare of the race horse, you'd think they'd listen to the horse health professionals.

Sad some simply choose to simply ignore that.

So as you point out that is between 6 and 18 pounds on a 1200 lb animal, which is entirely gone before the race even begins as opposed to sweating it out along the way as well as after the race is well over. So how much does a pound in the saddle really mean?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

So as you point out that is between 6 and 18 pounds on a 1200 lb animal, which is entirely gone before the race even begins as opposed to sweating it out along the way as well as after the race is well over. So how much does a pound in the saddle really mean?

First, no that weight is not "entirely gone" before the race begins. The horses continue to sweat weight out during the race. That is post-lasix race weight hours after the race (which includes urination after the race)

What does a pound in the saddle have to do with blood volume?? They are two different things. The horse isn't losing muscle mass.

We could look at the results of the scientific study where they ran the horses replacing the weight the horse lost due to lasix, to see if "weight loss" due to lasix changed anything.

Would you like to see that?

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by Riot

First, no that weight is not "entirely gone" before the race begins. The horses continue to sweat weight out during the race. That is post-lasix race weight hours after the race (which includes urination after the race)

What does a pound in the saddle have to do with blood volume?? They are two different things.

We could look at the results of the scientific study where they ran the horses replacing the weight the horse lost due to lasix, to see if "weight loss" due to lasix changed anything.

Would you like to see that?

I'm talking about weight and nothing more. Got my own feelings about where that water loss comes from when it is drug induced vs sweating from practical and observational experience, but am no vet and am not going to argue on one side or the other of this agenda driven debate.