Kentucky's ongoing attempt to end racing in state proceeds..

[Riot]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

More hit-and-run quotes from choice abstracts:

You can't cherry pick out individual sentences from abstracts while completely ignoring the breadth of work and the other sentences in the paragraphs. For example, you quote this

-The existing literature references suggest that furosemide has the potential of increasing performance in horses without significantly changing the bleeding status.

But you fail to quote a few sentences later:

This is substantiated by clinical observations that the administration of furosemide to horses with EIPH may reduce haemorrhage but does not completely stop it.

Science - not your thing

Rollo, the entirely of the veterinary community has one fairly united opinion on this. What is your explanation for that?

And yes, as has been previously pointed out here, the FLAIR nasal strips have the same efficacy in decreasing the severity of EIPH as lasix does. Glad you noticed.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Riot

And yes, as has been previously pointed out here, the FLAIR nasal strips have the same efficacy in decreasing the severity of EIPH as lasix does. Glad you noticed.

Good thing there's an alternative that doesn't require a raceday injection in case lasix does end up getting banned.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Good thing there's an alternative that doesn't require a raceday injection in case lasix does end up getting banned.

Yes. Buy stock. Lasix will never be banned. That would harm too many horses. That the industry is even considering lasix a problem shows the ignorance and absurdity of those in charge.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Good thing there's an alternative that doesn't require a raceday injection in case lasix does end up getting banned.

Imagine the uproar if every human athlete was stuck with a needle before competition...every time.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Imagine the uproar if every human athlete was stuck with a needle before competition...every time.

You mean like the silly uproar where therapeutic use of anabolic steroid in race horses under veterinary advice was ridiculously compared to illegal steroid drug abuse in human athletes? So we banned steroids? And the sport has been saved and horses are completely different now?

[Indian Charlie]

Orioles, seriously, you need your head examined.

You'd have better luck running head first into a brick wall. If you are lucky, you just might hit yourself hard enough to pass out.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Orioles, seriously, you need your head examined.

You'd have better luck running head first into a brick wall. If you are lucky, you just might hit yourself hard enough to pass out.

I've been laid up for a month with a bad back, what else am I going to do?

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I've been laid up for a month with a bad back, what else am I going to do?

Opanas. They're healthier than a back and forth with Quiet.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I've been laid up for a month with a bad back, what else am I going to do?

There are a lot of alternative choices that might work for your bad back.

As for arguing with a person, who in thousands upon thousands of posts has never once conceded a point or said "hey, maybe you are right", I'd just as soon stick my hand down into a running garbage disposal unit.

The whole thing with Lasix is beyond retarded.

I would love to see the look on Riot's face if I were able to ask her in person "Doctor, is bleeding in horses caused by a deficiency of Lasix?".

Knowing her, she'd say yes, but most rational people would say no.

In which case, I'd say, "Then why the fugg are you giving Lasix to the horse when the bleeding is not due to a deficiency of Lasix?"

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Imagine the uproar if every human athlete was stuck with a needle before competition...every time.

Humans are often stuck with needles during halftime of our most popular sport and no one seems upset about that.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Humans are often stuck with needles during halftime of our most popular sport and no one seems upset about that.

Again, those that need it, sure. 99%, I don't think so. Even so, that is a contact sport so I'm not sure it is a good comparison. How about track and field. That seems A LOT more reasonable. How many of them are injected on the day of competition? 99%?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Again, those that need it, sure. 99%, I don't think so. Even so, that is a contact sport so I'm not sure it is a good comparison. How about track and field. That seems A LOT more reasonable. How many of them are injected on the day of competition? 99%?

What is track and field? Never heard of it...

I find it hard to understand that if you believe lasix is a performance enhancer that you would want a small percentage of horses to benefit. The entire reason that the standards were relaxed is that pretty much every horse has some degree of bleeding at some point. Well that and the racing commissions love to save money so it is easier to not have the state vet check every bleeding episode...

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

What is track and field? Never heard of it...

I find it hard to understand that if you believe lasix is a performance enhancer that you would want a small percentage of horses to benefit. The entire reason that the standards were relaxed is that pretty much every horse has some degree of bleeding at some point. Well that and the racing commissions love to save money so it is easier to not have the state vet check every bleeding episode...

Like I said, as a bettor, I don't care. All I am saying is it isn't the easy decision that both sides seem to think it is. I find it hard to believe that every horse has bleeding and that all bleeding, no matter how microscopic, is an issue.

Let me ask you this, while it does help with bleeding, doesn't dehydrating a horse before sending it out to race have some negative effects? I can't imagine there is another sport where the participant is dehydrated before competing.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Imagine the uproar if every human athlete was stuck with a needle before competition...every time.

Yeah.. That must be why they wait until halftime to shoot them up in the NFL.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Yeah.. That must be why they wait until halftime to shoot them up in the NFL.

Every player gets shot up Steve? You know better than that. I should change that to about 99% to keep it equal with horses. Do you think 99% of NFL players get shot up on game day?

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Every player gets shot up Steve? You know better than that. I should change that to about 99% to keep it equal with horses. Do you think 99% of NFL players get shot up on game day?

i would put money that 99% of the guys who play significant minutes do.

But the punter, kicker and they guys who are not active that day probably do not take some sort of painkiller.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

i would put money that 99% of the guys who play significant minutes do.

But the punter, kicker and they guys who are not active that day probably do not take some sort of painkiller.

You would be wrong. It isn't even remotely close to that number. Treatment, sure, but injections, no way.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

i would put money that 99% of the guys who play significant minutes do.

But the punter, kicker and they guys who are not active that day probably do not take some sort of painkiller.

you can bet your ass if they all had the potential of hemorraging during a game they'd get a shot!

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Imagine the uproar if every human athlete was stuck with a needle before competition...every time.

yeah nobody gets pain meds injected in sports!

[Antitrust32]

IMO Lasix enhances performance by allowing the horse to run to its best natural ability without being hampered with blood in its lungs.

Is a horse going to run faster with Lasix and no bleeding from the lungs compared to running and bleeding? Yes

But I do not believe Lasix will cause a horse to outrun its natural ability (compared to a horse racing on anabolic steriods)

So while I do believe lasix will make a horse run better, I actually agree with Riot (dont tell anybody) that it's really a performance enabler... compared to an actual enhancer like racing on roids.