Vote on Debt Limit increase?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by joeydb

If the creditors no longer loan to us, the decision has been made for us, and the game is over.

You're right, I think we both agree on the result that is needed. I think we differ on the way of getting there.

I don't want "the decision to be made for us" by not raising the debt ceiling. I think the permanent ramifications of that (forever increasing our personal interest rates on homes, cars, federal debt, negative impacting our bond ratings, etc) will take us out of first world status.

I don't want my grandchildren to be paying 2 percentage points more in interest on their house loans because the GOP wouldn't vote to raise the debt ceiling in 2011 (which would be the case even if at that time our government was small and spending well within a budget)

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Riot

You're right, I think we both agree on the result that is needed. I think we differ on the way of getting there.

I don't want "the decision to be made for us" by not raising the debt ceiling. I think the permanent ramifications of that (forever increasing our personal interest rates on homes, cars, federal debt, negative impacting our bond ratings, etc) will take us out of first world status.

I don't want my grandchildren to be paying 2 percentage points more in interest on their house loans because the GOP wouldn't vote to raise the debt ceiling in 2011 (which would be the case even if at that time our government was small and spending well within a budget)

We sure could use the Trillion dollars we have spend in Iraq.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by jms62

We sure could use the Trillion dollars we have spend in Iraq.

Sigh. Yeah.

Or, it would have been nice to simply pay for it at the time, by raising our taxes a little to pay for it.

Also, we sure could use what we spent to fund the Medicare Prescription benefit that was passed into law, rather than not figuring out how to pay for it at the time.

Also, it was probably not a good idea to also, at the time, cut our income by giving a big tax cut to wealthy citizens, while we spent more money on those two things.

Sigh. Gee whiz, how did we get here, in this financial morass?

Wait! I know how to start fixing it! Let's take away our ability to have ready cash flow to pay our bills, and say we will no longer pay our compounding and ever-increasing interest on our debt! That will show our creditors we are serious.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Sigh Let's take away our ability to have ready cash flow to pay our bills, and say we will no longer pay our compounding and ever-increasing interest on our debt! That will show our creditors we are serious.

Yea act like a crack addict and apply for more credit. That will show our creditors (China). Like a normal american family in financial trouble credit cards need to be cut in half and we need to make due with what we have. No more money for Fannie, Freddie or USPO or any of our other deadbeat relatives.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Yea act like a crack addict and apply for more credit. That will show our creditors (China). Like a normal american family in financial trouble credit cards need to be cut in half and we need to make due with what we have. No more money for Fannie, Freddie or USPO or any of our other deadbeat relatives.

The debt ceiling is far more than just a credit card, Dell. That is certainly NOT what it's main purpose is. There seems to be some misunderstanding, that the debt ceiling is "that's all we can spend". No. That is NOT it's purpose.

Freezing it doesn't keep us only spending a certain amount, like some arbitrary limit to "paycheck" income - it makes us default on our loans because we can't pay, because we don't have the ebb and flow capability within our own financial systems and internationally to transfer money readily to meet our obligations. Can you understand the difference?

To do what you wish, we would need billions in cash literally sitting in a bank somewhere. You understand that doesn't exist, that's not how it works, right?

[Danzig]

http://www.slate.com/id/2293892/

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

http://www.slate.com/id/2293892/

Aya, yup

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Riot

The debt ceiling is far more than just a credit card, Dell. That is certainly NOT what it's main purpose is. There seems to be some misunderstanding, that the debt ceiling is "that's all we can spend". No. That is NOT it's purpose.

Freezing it doesn't keep us only spending a certain amount, like some arbitrary limit to "paycheck" income - it makes us default on our loans because we can't pay, because we don't have the ebb and flow capability within our own financial systems and internationally to transfer money readily to meet our obligations. Can you understand the difference?

To do what you wish, we would need billions in cash literally sitting in a bank somewhere. You understand that doesn't exist, that's not how it works, right?

OK, jumping off from your point though, it sounds like "we need to borrow more or we'll default on our existing debt." That doesn't make much sense. If that is literally true, we are already done.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by joeydb

OK, jumping off from your point though, it sounds like "we need to borrow more or we'll default on our existing debt." That doesn't make much sense. If that is literally true, we are already done.

Go read 'Zig's article, and learn how and why we issue Treasury bonds.