Vote on Debt Limit increase?

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Riot

I wish you could understand the basic concept that the debt ceiling being raised has nothing at all to do with increasing our spending.

Well it SHOULD, should it not? Why are we spending more than we take in, ever, let alone for many, many years?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Well it SHOULD, should it not? Why are we spending more than we take in, ever, let alone for many, many years?

That has nothing to do with our debt ceiling, though. That's budgeting. And budget trouble started back in 2000, Joey. Yes, not from scratch, but we did some very major things to screw ourselves during the 2000's. There is no denying that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt_ceiling#Debt_ceiling

Look: if you are paying compounding interest rates of X on your car, house and credit cards, saying you no longer can afford to pay X, you want to pay X - 3, doesn't make those interest rates drop or go away.

You can say you refuse to pay that accumulating, compounding interest any more, but saying that doesn't make it go away, and defaulting on it is a financial disaster. There is also the component of the debt ceiling that goes to our cash flow.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Riot

That has nothing to do with our debt ceiling, though. That's budgeting. And budget trouble started back in 2000, Joey. Yes, not from scratch, but we did some very major things to screw ourselves during the 2000's. There is no denying that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt_ceiling#Debt_ceiling

Look: if you are paying compounding interest rates of X on your car, house and credit cards, saying you no longer can afford to pay X, you want to pay X - 3, doesn't make those interest rates drop or go away.

You can say you refuse to pay that accumulating, compounding interest any more, but saying that doesn't make it go away, and defaulting on it is a financial disaster. There is also the component of the debt ceiling that goes to our cash flow.

The way to pay X-3 in your example is to not take on any more debt, by slashing other spending until you are below what you take in. Then you have extra money not to spend but to pay down that debt with. You might then be in a position to negotiate a lower interest rate over a longer period of time. But at least at that point you have a workable plan with which to retire the debt.

The congress is doing neither. They are not cutting spending, and they always hit a deficit level of spending almost every year.

If you live above your means today, you will have to live below your means in the future to make up for it. That's just math.

So, let's bite bullet and slash the spending with a chainsaw, and pay down the debt. That means no debt ceiling raises. In fact, once we start paying down the debt I want a debt ceiling contraction.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by joeydb

So, let's bite bullet and slash the spending with a chainsaw, and pay down the debt. That means no debt ceiling raises. .

No, it doesn't.

And some members of Congress have to realize that slashing spending doesn't help balance the budget when they keep markedly cutting our income at the same time, too.

"Slashing spending with a chainsaw" means bridges are going to fall down and kill people, and highways will be filled with potholes, btw. Not to mention the old people dying homeless and ill in the streets.

Be careful what is wished for, because the reality and consequences counts, too.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Riot

No, it doesn't.

And some members of Congress have to realize that slashing spending doesn't help balance the budget when they keep markedly cutting our income at the same time, too.

"Slashing spending with a chainsaw" means bridges are going to fall down and kill people, and highways will be filled with potholes, btw. Not to mention the old people dying homeless and ill in the streets.

Be careful what is wished for, because the reality and consequences counts, too.

I don't have to wish for it. It will happen as the spending is unsustainable by a wide margin.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Riot

No, it doesn't.

And some members of Congress have to realize that slashing spending doesn't help balance the budget when they keep markedly cutting our income at the same time, too.

"Slashing spending with a chainsaw" means bridges are going to fall down and kill people, and highways will be filled with potholes, btw. Not to mention the old people dying homeless and ill in the streets.

Be careful what is wished for, because the reality and consequences counts, too.

....and you're the one calling the Reps "fearmongers"?

[timmgirvan]

Treasury will raid govt employees pension funds to offset debt ceiling raise!

BOY...I guess it bites working for the gubamint!

[Riot]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Treasury will raid govt employees pension funds to offset debt ceiling raise!

BOY...I guess it bites working for the gubamint!

Gee, that can't be true - too many people have been saying there is no "real" consequences to not raising the debt ceiling.

You know, we'll just pay the interest, and pick and choose what to pay, or just pay interest, and the cash flow afforded by our credit (the debt ceiling) isn't needed ...

Welcome to the consequences.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

....and you're the one calling the Reps "fearmongers"?

We have already have had bridges fail and kill people due to infrastructure problems, and many more are still being used that shouldn't be. That is not manufactured lies.

If we eliminate Medicare and Social Security we certainly will go back to our previous reality, of old people dying of preventable problems on the street, homeless. That is not manufacture lies to scare people, either.

It's the truth.

We want a certain lifestyle in America, and it's expensive. We can either agree to pay for it, or give it up.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Riot

We have already have had bridges fail and kill people due to infrastructure problems, and many more are still being used that shouldn't be. That is not manufactured lies.

If we eliminate Medicare and Social Security we certainly will go back to our previous reality, of old people dying of preventable problems on the street, homeless. That is not manufacture lies to scare people, either.

It's the truth.

We want a certain lifestyle in America, and it's expensive. We can either agree to pay for it, or give it up.

Those bridges were paid for to be maintained, and instead of doing it right, we had "5 guys watching one guy shovel" for those jobs. Patronage galore, with no incentive to get done sooner - since the jobs were paid a daily rate for as long as it took.

Medicare and Social Security are both Ponzi scheme time bombs. They will not be maintained over the long term because they cannot be. This is academic.

We want a certain lifestyle - but if we cannot afford it or have been using unlimited borrowing to sustain it, we do not have a right to it and it will not continue.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Riot

We have already have had bridges fail and kill people due to infrastructure problems, and many more are still being used that shouldn't be. That is not manufactured lies.

If we eliminate Medicare and Social Security we certainly will go back to our previous reality, of old people dying of preventable problems on the street, homeless. That is not manufacture lies to scare people, either.

It's the truth.

We want a certain lifestyle in America, and it's expensive. We can either agree to pay for it, or give it up.

Riot, they do want to give it up. They like a 2-class situation. Each day they show this. It's not some misunderstanding. They want this.