Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

WEAC (the WI teacher's union) which is funded thru tax payer money (thru paying teachers salaries)

Whoa. Wrong. Once the taxpayers money goes into the paycheck, that money belongs to the employee. Nobody has the right to tell an employee what to spend their hard-earned money on.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

Whoa. Wrong. Once the taxpayers money goes into the paycheck, that money belongs to the employee. Nobody has the right to tell an employee what to spend their hard-earned money on.

Your argument would have merit if the employee had a choice to belong or not belong to the union which in the case of the teachers union in WI they do not have that choice.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Your argument would have merit if the employee had a choice to belong or not belong to the union which in the case of the teachers union in WI they do not have that choice.

Nope. Once the money is earned and that paycheck is cut, all that money is the employees. Period.

That money doesn't belong to taxpayers. Taxpayers have zero say in how an employees money is spent. That's beyond absurd - Big Government controlling how you spend your pay!?

Perhaps employees should only be allowed to spend it at one company store?

You are talking about the collective bargaining agreement an employer bargains for themselves. You seem to have a problem with what the state has bargained for themselves. That has nothing to do with what employees spend their money upon. Sounds like you need to get angry at those in your state government that bargained an agreement with teachers that you don't care for.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Nope. Once the money is earned and that paycheck is cut, all that money is the employees. Period.

That money doesn't belong to taxpayers. Taxpayers have zero say in how an employees money is spent. That's beyond absurd - Big Government controlling how you spend your pay!?

Perhaps employees should only be allowed to spend it at one company store?

You are talking about the collective bargaining agreement an employer bargains for themselves. You seem to have a problem with what the state has bargained for themselves. That has nothing to do with what employees spend their money upon. Sounds like you need to get angry at those in your state government that bargained an agreement with teachers that you don't care for.

An employee has the freedom to choose to work in a job where they have to join a union, or not.

I believe what he is saying is that the teachers are paid with taxpayer money AND before they get paid, thier union dues are taken out of thier checks involuntarily because they are forced currently to be in the union.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I believe what he is saying is that the teachers are paid with taxpayer money AND before they get paid, their union dues are taken out of their checks involuntarily because they are forced currently to be in the union.

But that's not true. The employee's pay is determined - and the union dues are taken out of the employees gross pay (just like taxes) before the paycheck is handed to them. No work, no pay, no union dues.

Nobody is making the claim that an employees federal and state tax withholdings are "my taxpayer's money". They can't. That's absurd.

Employees are not forced into anything. They are free to take a teaching job where they don't have to be in a union. That's known up front, before the employee signs their hiring contract.

Look: Wiphan appears not to like (and he can correct me if it's wrong) that unions donate to Democratic candidates. But the argument "that is my taxpayer's money!" is completely and obviously false. It's the employee's money.

The Koch brothers don't like that either - hence the concerted, across the country word was handed out at the Republican Governors Association meeting to bust the unions. And meanwhile, back in Congress, we have Republican congressmen trying to loosen rules governing workplace safety, trying to lowering the minimum wage, etc. Look like unions shouldn't go anywhere soon. Unions don't get a hold in places where workers feel fairly treated by their employers.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

But that's not true. The employee's pay is determined - and the union dues are taken out of the employees gross pay (just like taxes) before the paycheck is handed to them. No work, no pay, no union dues.

Nobody is making the claim that an employees federal and state tax withholdings are "my taxpayer's money". They can't. That's absurd.

Employees are not forced into anything. They are free to take a teaching job where they don't have to be in a union. That's known up front, before the employee signs their hiring contract.

Look: Wiphan appears not to like (and he can correct me if it's wrong) that unions donate to Democratic candidates. But the argument "that is my taxpayer's money!" is completely and obviously false. It's the employee's money.

The Koch brothers don't like that either - hence the concerted, across the country word was handed out at the Republican Governors Association meeting to bust the unions. And meanwhile, back in Congress, we have Republican congressmen trying to loosen rules governing workplace safety, trying to lowering the minimum wage, etc. Look like unions shouldn't go anywhere soon. Unions don't get a hold in places where workers feel fairly treated by their employers.

Union dues are not taxes. They are taken out of their paychecks, they are involuntary. Saying that they can teach somewhere else is laughable. Techers teach where they can get a job. And since the vast majority of jobs are public school aka union jobs that is where they work. Unions dont want teachers or any other members the right to opt out or not be in the union.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Union dues are not taxes. They are taken out of their paychecks, they are involuntary. Saying that they can teach somewhere else is laughable. Techers teach where they can get a job. And since the vast majority of jobs are public school aka union jobs that is where they work. Unions dont want teachers or any other members the right to opt out or not be in the union.

Teacher works.
Teacher earns money.
Teacher gets paycheck.
That money belongs to the teacher.

Union dues come out of that paycheck.

Taxpayers thinking they have a right to say what union dues money is spent upon is ... beyond absurd. They have zero claim to that. Just like they have zero claim on the employee choosing to send $1 of their tax money to a wildlife fund.

Teachers are free agents. They have every right not to take a job where they have to join a teachers union. Private schools pay about 5% more in pay and benefits than Wisconsin public schools.

Trying to make the argument that union-busting is for the benefit of the employees is touching, but completely unbelievable

Although it is nice to see, now that the union has agreed to all Walkers demands regarding pension contribution, pay cut, etc., yet Walker is going forward with his main concern, being busting the unions (as verified by his unbelievable silliness in sharing his plan for threatening workers with the imaginary "David Koch") - that it's crystal clear the whole point of this has less to do with budget deficits (like maybe caused by Walker giving $140 million in unfunded tax credits to business, oh wow, that's a huge deficit hole that could be filled by ... teacher pensions and pay cuts! But the damn unions are standing in the way ... hummmmm) and everything to do with typical Republican demagogary.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Union dues are not taxes. They are taken out of their paychecks, they are involuntary. Saying that they can teach somewhere else is laughable. Techers teach where they can get a job. And since the vast majority of jobs are public school aka union jobs that is where they work. Unions dont want teachers or any other members the right to opt out or not be in the union.

Taxes are also involuntary...