Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Can I ask you one question? Since when is collective bargaining in the public sector a god given right?

What does a god have to do with anything?

Legally - which is the only standard in our country - there is nothing wrong with unions in a constitutional sense. Unions are definitively allowed within our "union" of states. In both public and private sector.

Collective bargaining is an agreement, a contract, between and employer and their employees. It's pure libertarian capitalism in action - each side is to bargain towards their own maximum self-interest and benefit. They shake on the result agreement and sign on the dotted line.

So when a corporate mouthpiece like Scott Walker attempts to quietly ram through a bill ending 50 years of collective bargaining rights within a few days, with little debate - the unions, and those that support them, most certainly have every "right" to stand up for their own self-interest. It's the Libertarian, capitalistic thing to do

In Wisconsin, public sector employees earn about 5% less than their counterpart in the private sector. That could be one reason why unions still exist in Wisconsin.

Because in places where employees feel treated and paid fairly for their work, unions do not gain footholds.

Not to mention the threats to all workers on a federal level right now, where some current congressmen want to relax child labor laws, lower the minimum wage, relax workplace safety regulations, etc.

Seems unions may be more needed than ever in the next few years if those guys get their way.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

What does a god have to do with anything?

Legally - which is the only standard in our country - there is nothing wrong with unions in a constitutional sense. Unions are definitively allowed within our "union" of states. In both public and private sector.

Collective bargaining is an agreement, a contract, between and employer and their employees. It's pure libertarian capitalism in action - each side is to bargain towards their own maximum self-interest and benefit. They shake on the result agreement and sign on the dotted line.

So when a corporate mouthpiece like Scott Walker attempts to quietly ram through a bill ending 50 years of collective bargaining rights within a few days, with little debate - the unions, and those that support them, most certainly have every "right" to stand up for their own self-interest. It's the Libertarian, capitalistic thing to do

In Wisconsin, public sector employees earn about 5% less than their counterpart in the private sector. That could be one reason why unions still exist in Wisconsin.

Because in places where employees feel treated and paid fairly for their work, unions do not gain footholds.

Not to mention the threats to all workers on a federal level right now, where some current congressmen want to relax child labor laws, lower the minimum wage, relax workplace safety regulations, etc.

Seems unions may be more needed than ever in the next few years if those guys get their way.

In typically democratic fashion you didn't answer my question. Since when is collective bargaining in the public sector a right?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

In typically democratic fashion you didn't answer my question. Since when is collective bargaining in the public sector a right?

Nonsense. Wrong. I clearly answered it. Look again. Second paragraph. You know, that Constitution thingy that gives us our "rights" to enter legal agreements? All our decades of previous constitutional law that verifies our "right" to form and bargain as a union? And an employers "right" to pay all employees according to bargaining agreements they've made with a "union"?

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

Wrong. I clearly answered it. Look again. Second paragraph. You know, that Constitution thingy that gives us our "rights" to enter legal agreements?

I don't know why I even try with you. The constitution does not state that collective bargaining is a right. Legal agreements and collective bargaining are not the same thing. WI has some of the most rigorous consumer protection and labor laws in the country so collective bargaining is not needed anymore other than to negotiate on salaries, which is still allowed under the proposal.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

I don't know why I even try with you.

Can't lose the lame insults and talk about the topic? Try really hard to step out of your normal.

The constitution does not state that collective bargaining is a right.

You're right, there is no mention of the words "collective bargaining rights" in the Constitution.

Yet our legal system, up to and including the Supreme Court, for decades have ruled those very unions, in a variety of forms, legal. Legal = "a constitutional right" in our world. Do you have any compelling evidence at all that there has been no right to form unions? Because if so, you'd better tell the Supreme Court. They've apparently been wrong all these decades according to you.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

Can't lose the lame insults and talk about the topic? Try really hard to step out of your normal.



You're right, there is no mention of the words "collective bargaining rights" in the Constitution.

Yet our legal system, up to and including the Supreme Court, for decades have ruled those very unions, in a variety of forms, legal. Legal = "a constitutional right" in our world. Do you have any compelling evidence at all that there has been no right to form unions? Because if so, you'd better tell the Supreme Court. They've apparently been wrong all these decades according to you.

There is nothing wrong with the right to form unions. Unions are legal and you have every right to form a union, however last I checked we live in a country based on freedom of choice and people should have the right to choose whether or not to belong to the union in the public sector. If the unions are so great and provides such huge benefits to the workers why are they scared of giving the employees the choice to belong or not belong? WEAC (the WI teacher's union) which is funded thru tax payer money (thru paying teachers salaries) donated $1.57 million last year to 4 senate democrats because it is all about the kids.

[Riot]

See, Governor Walker, this is why you do not try and secretly rush through legislation that changes things markedly (eliminate collective bargaining rights) without some time, a deep breath and public debate:


Sam Stein reports that Walker bill, if passed, will lose Wisconsin $46 million of the $74 million it gets in federal transportation funding

WASHINGTON -- Budget referees and transportation officials in Wisconsin have informed Gov. Scott Walker (R) that if he were to pass his controversial anti-union legislation into law, he could be forfeiting tens of millions of dollars in federal funds for transportation.

Under an obscure provision of federal labor law, states risk losing federal funds should they eliminate "collective bargaining rights" that existed at the time when federal assistance was first granted. The provision, known as "protective arrangements" or "Section 13C arrangements," is meant as a means of cushioning union (and even some non-union) members who, while working on local projects, are affected by federal grants.

It also could potentially hamstring governors like Walker who want dramatic changes to labor laws in their states. Wisconsin received $74 million in federal transit funds this fiscal year. Of that, $46.6 million would be put at risk should the collective-bargaining bill come to pass -- in the process creating an even more difficult fiscal situation than the one that, ostensibly, compelled Walker to push the legislation in the first place.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_826908.html

Some Dems have an emergency amendment to exclude Transportation union members from Walkers union-busting bill ready, in an attempt to save this money for the state. Walker's office has not yet commented, so it's unknown if Walker knew about this or not (is the federal fund loss deliberate or just a mistake of ignorance?)

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

WEAC (the WI teacher's union) which is funded thru tax payer money (thru paying teachers salaries)

Whoa. Wrong. Once the taxpayers money goes into the paycheck, that money belongs to the employee. Nobody has the right to tell an employee what to spend their hard-earned money on.

[Riot]

Oh, gawd, this has been confirmed by Walker's office ... sigh. Reminds of when Sarah Palin thought she was talking to Sarkozy.

Only far worse about revealing what Scott Walker thinks about the unions, and how to end the impasse. Wow. Read all the way to the end and listen to the tape.

Don't these guys have aids to keep them from accidentally stepping in it and ending their political careers? Seriously. Some heads need to roll here.

Gov. Scott Walker Gets Punked By Journalist Pretending To Be David Koch

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_827058.html

And here:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/wei...nk-caller.aspx