Are the Patriots better without Randy Moss?

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Montana definitely. Johnny Unitas or Bart Starr maybe, but they played before I was born, so it's tough to make a a strong arguement for them. Maybe Brett Favre if he retired four years ago. Brady's better than Peyton Manning but not by much.

Don't get me wrong, Brady is fantastic. But he also plays in a system that made Matt Cassel 11-5 as a starter and makes guys like Benjarvis Green Ellis look like a Pro Bowler.

Edit: I see Dala mentioned Elway. I agree, but like she said it's disputable.

I can't speak for Johnny Unitas or Bart Starr either of course, but I do know that today's athletes are not comparable to those and I would take any of the modern QB's (1980-) based on that. Montana is the one that clearly is the competition, because if you weight Super Bowls/playoffs heaviest, he is so far ahead of the next guy it isn't even funny (and that's not to say Brady isn't ultra clutch). But if you look at the regular season statistics (especially factoring in he had the greatest receiver to ever lace 'em up on his side, and a top 50 in Taylor as well):

Montana: 3,409 completions, 5,391 attempts (63.3%), 40,551 yards, 273 TD's, 139 INT's, rating of 92.3 in what was essentially full 12 seasons

Brady: 2,908 completions, 4,574 attempts (63.6%), 33,547 yards, 248 TD's, 103 INT's, rating of 94.3 in 8.75 seasons

Elway: 4,123 completions, 7,250 attempts (56.8%), 51,475 yards, 300 TD's, 226 INT's in 16 seasons

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by philcski

But if you look at the regular season statistics (especially factoring in he had the greatest receiver to ever lace 'em up on his side, and a top 50 in Taylor as well):

Didn't you say not too long ago that Moss was the best ever?

[philcski]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Didn't you say not too long ago that Moss was the best ever?

It's between him and Rice, obviously. Moss is the best ever when he wants to be- which isn't often this year. Rice never took a play off, even when he was a shadow of his former self with the Raiders.

As for Moss' impact, even if you take out the crazy stats from the 16-0 regular season his #'s are still awesome.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

When NFL Network rated the top 100 players of all-time - they had a stupid rating system where they ask that players be rated from 1 to 10.

A guy like Jerry Rice who is as solid as it gets at a position that attracts douchebaggery is going to get 10's all over. That's how he ended up #1 overall over Jim Brown and all those great QB's. He's a friggen reciever - you have to draw up ways and sceme to get him the ball.

A guy like Randy Moss is going to get 1's and 2's from a few people who simply don't like him. Peter King even said "he should have been and even could have been a lot higher - but anyone who says they don't work for their check - that guy isn't for me" That's how Moss ends up at #65.

OJ Simpson ran for over 2,000 yards in a 14 game season on a team that was supposedly one dimensional. I bet a few people shaved a point or two off of his score because he murdered a couple of people. He should have been higher on a more rational system.

Even Deoin has a point. A few people who didn't like his antics and couldn't stand him probably shaved a point or two off.