I need to listen to ATR more often

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

not at all true. If she took on males with consistancy and ran well.. won or lose.. her connections and her "legacy" would have a ton more respect.

I disagree. If she goes undefeated and wins the BC Classic this year for the 2nd year in a row, I think her legacy will be greater than if she ran against the boys a few more times and lost.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I disagree. If she goes undefeated and wins the BC Classic this year for the 2nd year in a row, I think her legacy will be greater than if she ran against the boys a few more times and lost.

That's only because her entire legacy is that stupid streak at this point. Just look at the first comment from the Paulick Report swamp things: "17-0. That's all that needs to be said." There's no legitimate argument anymore against testing her on the east coast and/or against boys, so her record is made to be her legacy.

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Yes, I read your post. As I said before, I totally disagree with you. If I owned Zenyatta, I would not be wanting to face Rail Trip at Hollywood in a 4 horse field with no pace.

With regard to your other comment, facing females in California is usually not a serious challenge for her although it has been a couple of times.

She won the Classic last year. She appears to be just as good on the dirt as on synthetic. She looks to be as good this year as last year. Why wouldn't she be one of the horses to beat in the Classic again this year?

Davidowitz claimed she's impervious to pace scenarios and runs just as well behind a slow pace as a fast one (for the record, I agree with him), so what difference should it make how many horses are in the Gold Cup (I guarantee it won't be four) and what the pace is like?

Look at the bolded parts. This is the problem. We're still guessing as to how good she is because they refuse to prove it. It's downright pathetic that we're begging her to face Rail Trip. If she were as great as they say she is, she'd be pointing for the Whitney. And I don't want to hear about all the preps she needs for the BCC. If she can't run against big horses the first Saturday in August, then do so again in November, she's not really a champion.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

That's only because her entire legacy is that stupid streak at this point. Just look at the first comment from the Paulick Report swamp things: "17-0. That's all that needs to be said." There's no legitimate argument anymore against testing her on the east coast and/or against boys, so her record is made to be her legacy.



Davidowitz claimed she's impervious to pace scenarios and runs just as well behind a slow pace as a fast one (for the record, I agree with him), so what difference should it make how many horses are in the Gold Cup (I guarantee it won't be four) and what the pace is like?

Look at the bolded parts. This is the problem. We're still guessing as to how good she is because they refuse to prove it. It's downright pathetic that we're begging her to face Rail Trip. If she were as great as they say she is, she'd be pointing for the Whitney. And I don't want to hear about all the preps she needs for the BCC. If she can't run against big horses the first Saturday in August, then do so again in November, she's not really a champion.

I don't think Davidowitz literally meant that Zenyatta is 100% impervious to pace. I think he meant that she can still win despite a slow pace. She doesn't neccessarily have to have a fast pace to win. She would rather have a fast pace but she doesn't neccessarily have to have one.

So now you're saying that even if she wins the BC Classic again this year that still won't be enough because she's probably not going to face the boys in August. This is getting ridiculous.

To say the streak is not a big deal is ridiculous. It's almost impossible to win 15 graded stakes races in a row, no matter how carefully you pick your spots. You can catch some easy graded stakes races occassionally but you can't do it consistently and that is why it's never been done.

If you could find a way to win 17 races in a row (including 15 graded stakes races in a row) with a horse that's not great, then you should become a racing manager. You would be the best racing manager in the country if you could map out a schedule where a horse that's not that great of a horse wins 15 graded stakes races in a row by picking easy spots. It would actually be easy to make money as an owner if an owner could just find easy graded stakes races and win 15 in a row.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

So now you're saying that even if she wins the BC Classic again this year that still won't be enough because she's probably not going to face the boys in August. This is getting ridiculous.

To say the streak is not a big deal is ridiculous. It's almost impossible to win 15 graded stakes races in a row, no matter how carefully you pick your spots. You can catch some easy graded stakes races occassionally but you can't do it consistently and that is why it's never been done.

I know, how ridiculous to want her to have more than two stiff tests in her legendary 20-race career. We should all be grateful that she's come back to win the same million races on the same surfaces over the same mediocre horses. The streak isn't a big deal because she's not facing top competition. She's facing a bunch of ordinary California mares over and over again. If she were running in true Grade I's against true quality horses, the streak would be amazing, but she's not.

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

If you could find a way to win 17 races in a row (including 15 graded stakes races in a row) with a horse that's not great, then you should become a racing manager. You would be the best racing manager in the country if you could map out a schedule where a horse that's not that great of a horse wins 15 graded stakes races in a row by picking easy spots. It would actually be easy to make money as an owner if an owner could just find easy graded stakes races and win 15 in a row.

Originally Posted by CSC

I wasn't always an admirer of hers either, but I finally recognized her for the talent she is. There is hope, if I could be swayed then anyone can be.

Holy crap. I think the horse is great, but we're not being allowed to see how great. How many more times do I have to say it?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I know, how ridiculous to want her to have more than two stiff tests in her legendary 20-race career. We should all be grateful that she's come back to win the same million races on the same surfaces over the same mediocre horses. The streak isn't a big deal because she's not facing top competition. She's facing a bunch of ordinary California mares over and over again. If she were running in true Grade I's against true quality horses, the streak would be amazing, but she's not.





Holy crap. I think the horse is great, but we're not being allowed to see how great. How many more times do I have to say it?

Alright. Fair enough. I see your point. I partially agree. I agree that we would have a better idea as to exactly how good she is if she shipped more. But that doesn't mean I would ship her more if she was my horse. It would depend how she handles shipping. They acted like the trip to Arkansas did in fact tire her out quite a bit. The commentators said she looked like she has lost a little weight. Assuming that is the case, I probably wouldn't ship her again before the BC.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Alright. Fair enough. I see your point. I partially agree. I agree that we would have a better idea as to exactly how good she is if she shipped more. But that doesn't mean I would ship her more if she was my horse. It would depend how she handles shipping. They acted like the trip to Arkansas did in fact tire her out quite a bit. The commentators said she looked like she has lost a little weight. Assuming that is the case, I probably wouldn't ship her again before the BC.

For all the talk of not liking the BC. This BC and in particular the BCC has the makings of the race of the decade, there's alot riding on this particular one, many reputations will be made or broken on one race. Perhaps unfairly so but it is what it is.

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by CSC

For all the talk of not liking the BC. This BC and in particular the BCC has the makings of the race of the decade, there's alot riding on this particular one, many reputations will be made or broken on one race. Perhaps unfairly so but it is what it is.

Sucks that shes going to be judged on this one race right? Thats what happens when you coddle your horse and put all your eggs in one basket. Maybe if they tested her a little bit more this wouldn't of happened. Her rep is def going to be crushed after she gets beat.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by CSC

For all the talk of not liking the BC. This BC and in particular the BCC has the makings of the race of the decade, there's alot riding on this particular one, many reputations will be made or broken on one race. Perhaps unfairly so but it is what it is.

I agree. If all these horses (Quality Road, Zenyatta, Rail Trip, Rachel Alexandra, etc.) continue to stay sound and in good form, this could be the best BCC in years.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by CSC

For all the talk of not liking the BC. This BC and in particular the BCC has the makings of the race of the decade, there's alot riding on this particular one, many reputations will be made or broken on one race. Perhaps unfairly so but it is what it is.

There haven't been too many races of the decade this decade since it started 6 months ago.

[Smooth Operator]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Alright. Fair enough. I see your point. I partially agree. I agree that we would have a better idea as to exactly how good she is if she shipped more. But that doesn't mean I would ship her more if she was my horse. It would depend how she handles shipping. They acted like the trip to Arkansas did in fact tire her out quite a bit. The commentators said she looked like she has lost a little weight. Assuming that is the case, I probably wouldn't ship her again before the BC.

Was at HP last Sunday and wholeheartedly agree with this

[Smooth Operator]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

To say the streak is not a big deal is ridiculous. It's almost impossible to win 15 graded stakes races in a row, no matter how carefully you pick your spots. You can catch some easy graded stakes races occassionally but you can't do it consistently and that is why it's never been done.

Not to mention the fact that she's a deep closer … which makes the streak even more remarkable.


By the way, some really outstanding work on this thread, Mr. Pumpkin

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Not to mention the fact that she's a deep closer … which makes the streak even more remarkable.


By the way, some really outstanding work on this thread, Mr. Pumpkin

Bullshit, on synthetic it is an advantage to be a closer.

[Smooth Operator]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Bullshit, on synthetic it is an advantage to be a closer.

A deeeeeeeeeep closer?

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

A deeeeeeeeeep closer?

Do you watch races? Do you bet? I just can't see how someone with a marginal grasp of horse racing could be so far in the tank.

[Smooth Operator]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I disagree. If she goes undefeated and wins the BC Classic this year for the 2nd year in a row, I think her legacy will be greater than if she ran against the boys a few more times and lost.