Zenyatta assigned 129 pounds for Vanity

[CSC]

9 lbs to St. Trinians...I have a healthy respect for whomever Mitchell is throwing out there at the moment. As much as the Rachelites will try to make of it, if St. Trinians runs her A race, this is a bigger test than what Rachel has faced this year. 2010

Spinning already.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Spinning already.

I know ST is not Zardana, but she is right there at the top of the division isn't she? No worries Zenyatta will be fine.

Originally Posted by CSC

Well she is right there at the top of the division isn't she? No worries Zenyatta will be fine.

The Special Olympics Division? Don't be scared. I know it's possible to take after the connections but man up, dude.

[Sightseek]

Over/under on the number of Zenyatta bobbleheads Smooth Operator comes home with?

[Port Conway Lane]

Originally Posted by CSC

9 lbs to St. Trinians...I have a healthy respect for whomever Mitchell is throwing out there at the moment. As much as the Rachelites will try to make of it, if St. Trinians runs her A race, this is a bigger test than what Rachel has faced this year. 2010

Close call but I couldn't be so sure. Unrivaled Belle is an improving filly and never got the credit she deserved in defeating RA.

[NTamm1215]

So St. Trinians is better than Unrivaled Belle because the former beat Life Is Sweet?

It's one thing to say that Zenyatta winning this race with all that weight would be a huge accomplishment, it's quite another to say that St. Trinians is better than Unrivaled Belle.

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why Zenyatta is only giving St. Trinians 9 lbs and why she's carrying the exact same thing she was last year in this race.

NT

[CSC]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

So St. Trinians is better than Unrivaled Belle because the former beat Life Is Sweet?

It's one thing to say that Zenyatta winning this race with all that weight would be a huge accomplishment, it's quite another to say that St. Trinians is better than Unrivaled Belle.

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why Zenyatta is only giving St. Trinians 9 lbs and why she's carrying the exact same thing she was last year in this race.

NT

What is it about St. Trinians that is so awful in your opinion? When the Apple Blossom was announced earlier this year, some were even saying she was the 3rd most interesting filly if she would have ran in that race. Unrivaled Belle has won one race, the same reaction occured when Zardana beat Rachel. Let's keep that in mind, she may turn out to be a pretty special filly, but at the moment let's reign back the superlatives. St. Trinians has atleast ran some big races in So Cal before her lacklustre Big Cap, I think anyone can observe she is not a filly that is chopped liver caliber coming into The Vanity, even the anti-Zenyatta advocates should recognize this.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by CSC

What is it about St. Trinians that is so awful in your opinion? When the Apple Blossom was announced earlier this year, some were even saying she was the 3rd most interesting filly if she would have ran in that race. Unrivaled Belle has won one race, the same reaction occured when Zardana beat Rachel. Let's keep that in mind, she may turn out to be a pretty special filly, but at the moment let's reign back the superlatives. St. Trinians has atleast ran some big races in So Cal before her lacklustre Big Cap, I think anyone can observe she is not a filly that is chopped liver caliber coming into The Vanity, even the anti-Zenyatta advocates should recognize this.

On paper, a case can be made that St. Trinians is the better (when taken into account that she runs on AW and the Vanity is run on AW), after all, Zardana was nearly 5 lengths behind her in the Santa Maria prior to upsetting Rachel Alexandra (though here you would need to ignore surface issues).

Nonetheless, there is no longer any guarantee that St. Trinians is still in that peak form she was in late last year and early this year. Its been 3 months since the Big Cap debacle (she should have been in the Santa Margarita--not the Apple Blossom) and who's to say she's the same horse after getting pummeled?

[CSC]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Nonetheless, there is no longer any guarantee that St. Trinians is still in that peak form she was in late last year and early this year. Its been 3 months since the Big Cap debacle (she should have been in the Santa Margarita--not the Apple Blossom) and who's to say she's the same horse after getting pummeled?

With the rate Mitchell is sending out winners, I would form an educated guess she will run back to form. On cushion, I would rate her second to only Zenyatta at the moment in the distaff division. As stated I have a healthy respect for her, I'm not sure what her odds will be, but even if you a fan of Zenyatta, if the spread is enough with the projected small field, any objective bettor would atleast have to entertain the thought she can possibly pull off the upset. Though as is always the case in her career Zenyatta may have a thing to say about that.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by CSC

Though as is always the case in her career Zenyatta may have a thing to say about that.

Yes, her career has been characterized by herculean trial.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by CSC

What is it about St. Trinians that is so awful in your opinion? When the Apple Blossom was announced earlier this year, some were even saying she was the 3rd most interesting filly if she would have ran in that race. Unrivaled Belle has won one race, the same reaction occured when Zardana beat Rachel. Let's keep that in mind, she may turn out to be a pretty special filly, but at the moment let's reign back the superlatives. St. Trinians has atleast ran some big races in So Cal before her lacklustre Big Cap, I think anyone can observe she is not a filly that is chopped liver caliber coming into The Vanity, even the anti-Zenyatta advocates should recognize this.

Go look at Unrivaled Belle's PPs. Then you'll have your facts straight. Click here: http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbH...0100612-494159

She won the Rampart on Fla Derby day before winning the La Troienne and came into the latter with a record of 5: 4-0-1 on conventional dirt with the only blemish being a 2nd place finish in the Gazelle. I know you're desperate to pound away at any horse who beat Rachel, but Unrivaled Belle was as accomplished coming into the La Troienne, if not more, than St. Trinians is coming into the Vanity.

Where did I say anything about St. Trinians being terrible? All I said was that a horse of Zenyatta's caliber should give ST at least 15 lbs in my opinion. You're talking about a Grade II and listed stakes winner and a 16x winner, BC Classic winner, 2x GI winner in 2010, and CSC Horse of the Year here. Come on, 9 lbs?

NT

[CSC]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Go look at Unrivaled Belle's PPs. Then you'll have your facts straight. Click here: http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbH...0100612-494159

She won the Rampart on Fla Derby day before winning the La Troienne and came into the latter with a record of 5: 4-0-1 on conventional dirt with the only blemish being a 2nd place finish in the Gazelle. I know you're desperate to pound away at any horse who beat Rachel, but Unrivaled Belle was as accomplished coming into the La Troienne, if not more, than St. Trinians is coming into the Vanity.

Where did I say anything about St. Trinians being terrible? All I said was that a horse of Zenyatta's caliber should give ST at least 15 lbs in my opinion. You're talking about a Grade II and listed stakes winner and a 16x winner, BC Classic winner, 2x GI winner in 2010, and CSC Horse of the Year here. Come on, 9 lbs?

NT

My work may not allow me access to download anything horseracing related, but I do seem to recall Unrivaled Belle losing to Striking Dancer, didn't she? Granted that was on pro-ride. As much as I like Striking Dancer she is not the same horse St. Trinians is.

As for the weight, I think the spread is more important than the actual weight. It is generally accepted by some horseplayeres that 1 lb equals 1 length in the final result, and to me that is substantial when you are giving that amount of weight to a horse of St. Trinians caliber.

In the end it may not matter, Zenyatta will probably run her down anyway, but she can't have a subpar ride from Smith or an off day.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by CSC

My work may not allow me access to download anything horseracing related, but I do seem to recall Unrivaled Belle losing to Striking Dancer, didn't she? Granted that was on pro-ride. As much as I like Striking Dancer she is not the same horse St. Trinians is.

As for the weight, I think the spread is more important than the actual weight. It is generally accepted by some horseplayeres that 1 lb equals 1 length in the final result, and to me that is substantial when you are giving that amount of weight to a horse of St. Trinians caliber.

In the end it may not matter, Zenyatta will probably run her down anyway, but she can't have a subpar ride from Smith or an off day.

I see, it's all so easy when you let the surface lines completely blur. I mean, who wouldn't take into consideration whether a horse is actually running on their preferred surface? After all, if you do that, how does the 2009 BC Classic field look?

NT

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why Zenyatta is only giving St. Trinians 9 lbs and why she's carrying the exact same thing she was last year in this race.

NT

Because they were afraid hitting the magical number of 130 or higher would cause Zenyatta's connections to tell them to go jump. They want her in the race, ergo she gets 129. They couldn't be absolutely ridiculous and give her less than before--she's won the BCC since. They also might've been concerned that they'd have to give ST and the others even less unless they had Z up high enough. A little balancing act.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

So St. Trinians is better than Unrivaled Belle because the former beat Life Is Sweet?

It's one thing to say that Zenyatta winning this race with all that weight would be a huge accomplishment, it's quite another to say that St. Trinians is better than Unrivaled Belle.

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why Zenyatta is only giving St. Trinians 9 lbs and why she's carrying the exact same thing she was last year in this race.

NT

This is rhetorical right, the reason?

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

This is rhetorical right, the reason?

Are you speaking in some kind of code? I don't know what you're talking about.

NT

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Are you speaking in some kind of code? I don't know what you're talking about.

NT

Your not serious enough to actually question why she got 129?

It has nothing to do with on the track as was pointed out by Merlinsky.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Your not serious enough to actually question why she got 129?

It has nothing to do with on the track as was pointed out by Merlinsky.

I understand that the racing secretary has an obligation to make sure they keep her in the race, but where was she gonna go? Shirreffs is mountain-phobic and tackling Rail Trip would be attempting to climb the highest mountain. If you're giving Zenyatta 129, fine, St. Trinians should tack 114.

NT

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Port Conway Lane

Close call but I couldn't be so sure. Unrivaled Belle is an improving filly and never got the credit she deserved in defeating RA.

Looking back UB came fresh off a gr.3 win at GP into the La Troienne, she was a distant 3rd choice in that race to Zardana and Rachel. It's an easy thing to say now she is good...but at the time not many took her seriously to win that race.

ST was a Gr.2 winner that was riding an unbeaten streak on AW in NA prior to the Big Cap. Infact if one looks at her Euro record on AW, it was no wonder why she was bet like iron in the Big Cap.

I differ, in my opinion, ST is the superior challenge of the 2 at this stage. Let's see how UB handles her new found fame, when she races against tougher as the season goes on. In addition, a vital point is Zenyatta is conceding 9 lbs to a gr.2 winner, something Rachel to this point hasn't done.