Noble's Promise: Did Willie Cost him at least a placing?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by iamthelurker

This thread is starting to get ridiculous. We are talking about Noble's Promise. This horse, though talented, is not a classic winner nor will he ever be. He's talented enough to be a competitive stakes horse at a mile to a mile and an eighth at the most!

The emphasis on jockeys is also getting dumb too. Most of us sit here and countless times say its more the horse then the jockey, but then when peoples wallets get hurt they need to critique another human, better yet, a professional athlete. Because our picks couldnt of possibly been off right? I mean I really thought that son of Cuvee was for sure gonna relish the mile and a quarter!! No. Theres a reason riders are out there doing this and its not only because they are 115 pounds, its because they know more about riding a thoroughbred racehorse then anyone on here ever will. You cant have it both ways guys.

I didn't have a dime on Nobles Promise and he didn't cost me anything. The move Willie Martinez made seemed premature and I thought it was enough to make a difference in not only his placing but also the way the race was run.

I don't care who his dad was although I think pointing out that he was sired by Cuvee makes the move all the more questionable. You seemed to have an intelligent argument but then you cop out by giving me the old "riders know more about riding a thoroughbred racehorse" line. I get that Willie is probably a lot better jockey than me or anyone else on this board but does that mean his ride in the biggest race in the world isn't up for discussion?

I don't discount the notion that regardless of what Willie had done, Noble's Promise may not have finished any better or even perhaps worse. However, in watching the race, it seemed to me that the race could have ended better for him and worse for the winner if he waits. Regardless of whether you agree or not, an objective analysis would at least leave open the possibility for better results with a different strategy. No?

[Cannon Shell]

Willie Shoemaker wouldnt have hit the board in the Derby on that horse.
Willie Carson couldnt get him to hit the board in the Epsom Derby either

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

I didn't have a dime on Nobles Promise and he didn't cost me anything. The move Willie Martinez made seemed premature and I thought it was enough to make a difference in not only his placing but also the way the race was run.

I don't care who his dad was although I think pointing out that he was sired by Cuvee makes the move all the more questionable. You seemed to have an intelligent argument but then you cop out by giving me the old "riders know more about riding a thoroughbred racehorse" line. I get that Willie is probably a lot better jockey than me or anyone else on this board but does that mean his ride in the biggest race in the world isn't up for discussion?

I don't discount the notion that regardless of what Willie had done, Noble's Promise may not have finished any better or even perhaps worse. However, in watching the race, it seemed to me that the race could have ended better for him and worse for the winner if he waits. Regardless of whether you agree or not, an objective analysis would at least leave open the possibility for better results with a different strategy. No?

well if you think willie's ride leaves some questions marks , check out R9 and tell me how you would feel if you owned a piece of musket man ........hold on , hold on , i gotta puke dala too many shots with kent d today

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by gales0678

well if you think willie's ride leaves some questions marks , check out R9 and tell me how you would feel if you owned a piece of musket man ........hold on , hold on , i gotta puke dala too many shots with kent d today

You let a dwarf drink you under the table?

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You let a dwarf drink you under the table?

should have stuck to the beer chuck , mixing shots and watching my favorite horse being ridden like he was in a rodeo was just too much too take , where's coa when you need a good ride

[outofthebox]

I cant watch this race anymore..Watch closely people. Willie went by two stopping leaders into the slowest 1/4 of the race. His move i think is an optical illusion. He did not seperate himself from Super Saver on this so called move. Watch closely, he is sitting still on him as they reach the top of the stretch and the others are already lapped on him/ I just think like many here that he is surely not a classic distance colt at this time...

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by outofthebox

I cant watch this race anymore..Watch closely people. Willie went by two stopping leaders into the slowest 1/4 of the race. His move i think is an optical illusion. He did not seperate himself from Super Saver on this so called move. Watch closely, he is sitting still on him as they reach the top of the stretch and the others are already lapped on him/ I just think like many here that he is surely not a classic distance colt at this time...

This is perfectly said. Unfortunately about four other people have said something similar and the discussion is still going on.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by outofthebox

I cant watch this race anymore..Watch closely people. Willie went by two stopping leaders into the slowest 1/4 of the race. His move i think is an optical illusion. He did not seperate himself from Super Saver on this so called move. Watch closely, he is sitting still on him as they reach the top of the stretch and the others are already lapped on him/ I just think like many here that he is surely not a classic distance colt at this time...

So was Willie dropping his hands and scrubbing around the turn an optical illusion? It looks to me like he is clearly asking his horse midway around turn. I agree that when he passes the 12 and 20, he stops riding until the winner catches his up but by then he had already asked his horse twice.

You guys are missing the point. Whether the horse is a classic distance colt is immaterial. He may not be but if he isn't, why would you move then? If he is or if he isn't, waiting most likely changes the race anyway. There is no denying that.