Noble's Promise: Did Willie Cost him at least a placing?

[santana]

He had NO chance to get the distance...

[Riot]

I thought he did the best he could with the horse he had. Haven't read the post-game comments from any connections yet.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Nobles Promise = Sam P... A pathetically overrated allowance horse that everyone keeps making excuses for. Throw Dublin in that category as well.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Nobles Promise = Sam P... A pathetically overrated allowance horse that everyone keeps making excuses for. Throw Dublin in that category as well.

He has been in 5 grade 1 races now and has earned a check in every one. Whether he can get a classic distance is another subject but he has proven he belongs at this level. No?

[Danzig]

at the level, yes. distance, probably not. is anyone really surprised a son of cuvee didn't hit the board at 1 1/4? i think 1 1/16th is as far as he wants. never off the board til he ran past that in arkansas and then yesterday.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

He has been in 5 grade 1 races now and has earned a check in every one. Whether he can get a classic distance is another subject but he has proven he belongs at this level. No?

It's funny no one was bitching about WM when he was carving up soup cans over the plastic on him as a 2 year old...

1st against nothing in the BC futurity over the plastic
3rd to the LaL (who had no excuse) over the plastic
2nd to LaL (who had no excuse) over the plastic

Those are the only G1 board hits (anyone entered in a G1 "cashes" a check)

Clearly that head beat against LaL in the Rebel was much the best this guy will ever do on dirt...And considering what was in that race now clearly makes the point that he was never a classic distance type - the Ark only reinforced that IMO although I didn't totally discount the trouble he encountered, if he had any shot at a mile and a quarter he should have showed it.

Ice Box has the only legitimate bitch coming to him in the way that race was run - he was clearly the horse to beat - WM gave NP the best opportunity - he just is not that good.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

It's funny no one was bitching about WM when he was carving up soup cans over the plastic on him as a 2 year old...

1st against nothing in the BC futurity over the plastic
3rd to the LaL (who had no excuse) over the plastic
2nd to LaL (who had no excuse) over the plastic

Those are the only G1 board hits (anyone entered in a G1 "cashes" a check)

Clearly that head beat against LaL in the Rebel was much the best this guy will ever do on dirt...And considering what was in that race now clearly makes the point that he was never a classic distance type - the Ark only reinforced that IMO although I didn't totally discount the trouble he encountered, if he had any shot at a mile and a quarter he should have showed it.

Ice Box has the only legitimate bitch coming to him in the way that race was run - he was clearly the horse to beat - WM gave NP the best opportunity - he just is not that good.

Rude,

this is as comprehensively BAD as your opinion of Battle of Hastings yesterday. It's wrong, top to bottom. Of course, when someone like you, who is able to do some cashing, figure (i.e., externally) aided though it might be, can be so dead wrong when it comes to interpreting races, then it sort of puts into perspective why the game remains crushable.

Nothing personal, of course.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Rude,

this is as comprehensively BAD as your opinion of Battle of Hastings yesterday. It's wrong, top to bottom. Of course, when someone like you, who is able to do some cashing, figure (i.e., externally) aided though it might be, can be so dead wrong when it comes to interpreting races, then it sort of puts into perspective why the game remains crushable.

Nothing personal, of course.

Thanks Fatty. Given that wager was made a day before the onslaught of weather that precluded the yielding turf, I can live with it.

Rest asssured Belmont will be Augusta National perfect before they dare place a nasty hoofprint over it.. After all it is all about keeping it perfect - not just the fact that it happens to be safe and green at the same time....

I hope you took advantage of the spectacularly clear pace/condition/-minus TRACKUS setup in the finale at Tampa today or the runaway 10-1 shot in the 9th at CD yesterday...

Never personal Bro - I love your insight

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Clearly that head beat against LaL in the Rebel was much the best this guy will ever do on dirt...And considering what was in that race now clearly makes the point that he was never a classic distance type - the Ark only reinforced that IMO although I didn't totally discount the trouble he encountered, if he had any shot at a mile and a quarter he should have showed it.

This is a totally different thing from him being an "overrated allowance horse." I don't think anyone ever argued that he was a classic distance horse -- he was, after all, 24-1 in the Derby despite his back class -- and I'm certainly not one who thinks Willie did anything wrong. Because NP has (predictably) failed to stretch his ability past 8 1/2 furlongs, that makes him an overrated allowance horse?

It also isn't as though he got dusted yesterday. He was beaten six lengths. I find it hard to believe you'll see a Cuvee get that close to a Derby win in the near future (or ever).

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I'm certainly not one who thinks Willie did anything wrong.

If you think that the horse ran very well given the setup, then, it follows, that you think that Willie did something wrong.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Nobles Promise = Sam P... A pathetically overrated allowance horse that everyone keeps making excuses for. Throw Dublin in that category as well.

This is crazy talk. Noble's Promise is way better than Sam P. Throwing out his faster than Sam P. figures, the fact that he's been able to do this well beyond a mile is remarkable in itself. He's a very nice horse. Dublin's also a good horse in the wrong hands.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

This is crazy talk. Noble's Promise is way better than Sam P. Throwing out his faster than Sam P. figures, the fact that he's been able to do this well beyond a mile is remarkable in itself. He's a very nice horse. Dublin's also a good horse in the wrong hands.

He needs to get back to CA and run mile and a 16th against the other also-rans over the synthetic -I'll abide the Sam P reference is a bit harsh, but I would think a further progression in the TC or further is a waste

[ibet2win]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

This is crazy talk. Noble's Promise is way better than Sam P. Throwing out his faster than Sam P. figures, the fact that he's been able to do this well beyond a mile is remarkable in itself. He's a very nice horse. Dublin's also a good horse in the wrong hands.

In the wrong hands? What a ridiculous thing to say. Lukas is a hall of famer who was leading money winner for like 10 years straight.....AND who do you think trained Todd Pletcher??????

[the_fat_man]

The quote confirms my original contention: McPeek is a CLOWN. His handling of this horse is like a cobbler being brought in as head mechanic for an Indy team.

[MISTERGEE]

Clown, possibly, but im guessing one hell of a salesman

[Riot]

McPeek found Curlin, Einstein, Take Charge Lady. Wasn't NP a 10K find? Some clown.

[ddthetide]

at the worst willie m. moved abit to soon and MAYBE cost NP a 2nd or 3rd.
if they cut him back to 1m-1 1/16m, keep him on dirt and let wiilie m. on board. NP will be a force to be reckoned with, the rest of the year, with this group of 3y/os.

[VOL JACK]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

The quote confirms my original contention: McPeek is a CLOWN. His handling of this horse is like a cobbler being brought in as head mechanic for an Indy team.

This is the same trainer that considers the immortal Kent Dedumbeaux to be the best Jock in the game.
Kent D== A rider
Willie M=== B rider

What a tandom.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

He was also moved early at KEE and the BC (which he completely SCREWED up). Is your contention that he can't get 8.5F?

I think that's as far as he'll go.

Originally Posted by ibet2win

In the wrong hands? What a ridiculous thing to say. Lukas is a hall of famer who was leading money winner for like 10 years straight.....AND who do you think trained Todd Pletcher??????

yeah, Lukas has had a ton of TC success in recent years. I know his credentials, it doesn't mean that he's still a good 3-year-old trainer.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by ibet2win

In the wrong hands? What a ridiculous thing to say. Lukas is a hall of famer who was leading money winner for like 10 years straight.....AND who do you think trained Todd Pletcher??????

This is a complete fallacy. Just because Pletcher worked for Lukas, that doesn't mean that Lukas taught him how to train. Pletcher was already a competent horseman and that is why Lukas hired him. I do give Lukas credit for having a good eye for talent and always hiring extremely competent assistants. When Lukas had strings all over the country, he almost always had excellent assistants that were capable of training the horses on their own.

Anyway, Pletcher trains nothing like Lukas. His philosophy is totally different from Lukas. They are polar opposites. If you listen to interviews with any of Lukas' former assistants, they are always asked what they learned from Lukas. You will notice that they never mentiong learning anything about training. When Kiaran McLaughlin was asked what he learned from Lukas, he said that he learned how to get owners and that type of thing. When Pletcher was asked the question, he said that he learned alot about organizational skills and how to run a big operation.

You will never hear any of those guys say that they learned anything about training from Lukas.

I totally agree with Ateam about Lukas. I know that you probably think Lukas' results speak for themselves but if you want to make that argument then you have to look at his results over the last 5 years also. He probably has the worst winning percentage in graded stakes races of any trainer in the country.