2015: American Pharoah becomes 12th Triple Crown winner

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Has Materiality even ever won a race wire-to-wire? He was far back early in the Derby and finished well.

He rated off Stanford a colt that worked in 9.8 and is speed ball. His slop mdn race he was on pace as well. the Florida derby he was sent and who can count anything from that surface good or bad that day. He could be a closer? but that trip in derby hardily validates that is his preferred style. All that trip suggests is he was 4th or 5th best horse in the race that day.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by freddymo

He rated off Stanford a colt that worked in 9.8 and is speed ball. His slop mdn race he was on pace as well. the Florida derby he was sent and who can count anything from that surface good or bad that day. He could be a closer? but that trip in derby hardily validates that is his preferred style. All that trip suggests is he was 4th or 5th best horse in the race that day.

You're a trip handicapper now....in addition to becoming a sudden fanboy?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

You're a trip handicapper now....in addition to becoming a sudden fanboy?

Hanging out with you for 12 years has some very small benefits

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Hanging out with you for 12 years has some very small benefits

There are a lot of unfortunate ways to go with that. Let's settle for "few if any"

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by freddymo

He rated off Stanford a colt that worked in 9.8 and is speed ball. His slop mdn race he was on pace as well. the Florida derby he was sent and who can count anything from that surface good or bad that day. He could be a closer? but that trip in derby hardily validates that is his preferred style. All that trip suggests is he was 4th or 5th best horse in the race that day.

Let's just reveal the elephant in the room:

Materiality has the talent, and most importantly, the early speed, to hinder American Pharoah's bid to stay 12 furlongs.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Let's just reveal the elephant in the room:

Materiality has the talent, and most importantly, the early speed, to hinder American Pharoah's bid to stay 12 furlongs.

You sure Materiality can rate? Seems to me the same argument suggesting AP hadnt proven he could rate sitting second to a running away speedball in Ark Derby would apply to any convincing argument Materiality can rate. If being out gunned by Stanford is proof he can rate then I guess he could effect AP but nobody should be convinced he can rate and be effective and we know AP can rate and finish. Seems to me all you have to do is follow Materiality until he is spent.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by freddymo

If being out gunned by Stanford is proof he can rate then I guess he could effect AP but nobody should be convinced he can rate and be effective and we know AP can rate and finish. Seems to me all you have to do is follow Materiality until he is spent.

I don't know Freddy. I think most of the American Pharaoh fans that are not currently developing skunk spots want want to see him go straight to the front and never look back. This charge is being led by none other than Steve Haskin, who in his most recent "piece" declares American Pharaoh as the only truly deserved contender for the Triple Crown since Spectacular Bid (think about the horses that comment dismisses).

Now you're telling us that he should simply sit off of Materiality and wait for that one to tire. Interesting for sure. But I guess it goes back to AP having this mythical "off day" in the Kentucky Derby, you know, the only time in his career when he sat just of a talented frontrunner (Dortmund). Was it mere coincidence that it was also the only time American Pharaoh didn't glide away from the competition through the stretch?

Now maybe Materiality is no Dortmund (though the speed figures might say otherwise), but certainly the extra 1/4 mile could make up the difference.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

I don't know Freddy. I think most of the American Pharaoh fans that are not currently developing skunk spots want want to see him go straight to the front and never look back. This charge is being led by none other than Steve Haskin, who in his most recent "piece" declares American Pharaoh as the only truly deserved contender for the Triple Crown since Spectacular Bid (think about the horses that comment dismisses).

Now you're telling us that he should simply sit off of Materiality and wait for that one to tire. Interesting for sure. But I guess it goes back to AP having this mythical "off day" in the Kentucky Derby, you know, the only time in his career when he sat just of a talented frontrunner (Dortmund). Was it mere coincidence that it was also the only time American Pharaoh didn't glide away from the competition through the stretch?

Now maybe Materiality is no Dortmund (though the speed figures might say otherwise), but certainly the extra 1/4 mile could make up the difference.

Did Haskin really say that?

If so, that's disgraceful even for him.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Did Haskin really say that?

If so, that's disgraceful even for him.

The reasoning was that all but one of the Triple Crown winners since the 1930s (6 out of 7) were previously crowned as 2yo champions.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

The reasoning was that all but one of the Triple Crown winners since the 1930s (6 out of 7) were previously crowned as 2yo champions.

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.....but you knew that.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Did Haskin really say that?

If so, that's disgraceful even for him.

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

The reasoning was that all but one of the Triple Crown winners since the 1930s (6 out of 7) were previously crowned as 2yo champions.

Haskin wrote that AP was the first since Spectacular Bid to "fit the profile" of previous TC winners. But I don't think Haskin said AP was the only deserving contender since Spectacular Bid. Here's what he wrote at BloodHorse:

"And the reality is this: American Pharoah is the first Derby and Preakness winner since Spectacular Bid to fit the profile of a Triple Crown winner. The naming of champions didn’t begin until the late 1930s, and since then, six of the seven Triple Crown winners – Affirmed, Seattle Slew, Secretariat, Citation, Count Fleet, and Whirlaway all were 2-year-old champions (either in the Daily Racing Form or Turf and Sport Digest polls), as, of course, was American Pharoah, who is the first juvenile champion since Spectacular Bid 36 years ago to attempt a Triple Crown sweep.

In addition, Triple Crown winners Affirmed, Seattle Slew, Secretariat, Citation, Count Fleet, War Admiral, and Gallant Fox all won the Belmont Stakes wire to wire. Even the late-running Whirlaway was sent to the lead early in the race. As everyone is well aware, American Pharoah certainly fits that profile as well."


http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/horse...s-the-day.aspx

--Dunbar