2015: American Pharoah becomes 12th Triple Crown winner

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

I don't know Freddy. I think most of the American Pharaoh fans that are not currently developing skunk spots want want to see him go straight to the front and never look back. This charge is being led by none other than Steve Haskin, who in his most recent "piece" declares American Pharaoh as the only truly deserved contender for the Triple Crown since Spectacular Bid (think about the horses that comment dismisses).

Now you're telling us that he should simply sit off of Materiality and wait for that one to tire. Interesting for sure. But I guess it goes back to AP having this mythical "off day" in the Kentucky Derby, you know, the only time in his career when he sat just of a talented frontrunner (Dortmund). Was it mere coincidence that it was also the only time American Pharaoh didn't glide away from the competition through the stretch?

Now maybe Materiality is no Dortmund (though the speed figures might say otherwise), but certainly the extra 1/4 mile could make up the difference.

Did Haskin really say that?

If so, that's disgraceful even for him.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Did Haskin really say that?

If so, that's disgraceful even for him.

The reasoning was that all but one of the Triple Crown winners since the 1930s (6 out of 7) were previously crowned as 2yo champions.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

The reasoning was that all but one of the Triple Crown winners since the 1930s (6 out of 7) were previously crowned as 2yo champions.

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.....but you knew that.

[LooseOnTheLead]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.....but you knew that.

I look at this from a different angle.

Of course a horse doesn't need to be the 2yo champ to win the TC as their have been a number or near misses. However, when a 2yo champ makes it to the Belmont with a shot, they have all proved to be exceptional horses. Those exceptional 2yo champs have a record of 6 wins and 1 loss...that loss being Spectacular Bid.

The other 27 horses that went to Belmont with a shot at the TC that weren't 2yo champs has produced 5 winners, with a number of near misses.

The fact there have only been 7 was surprising to me.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Did Haskin really say that?

If so, that's disgraceful even for him.

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

The reasoning was that all but one of the Triple Crown winners since the 1930s (6 out of 7) were previously crowned as 2yo champions.

Haskin wrote that AP was the first since Spectacular Bid to "fit the profile" of previous TC winners. But I don't think Haskin said AP was the only deserving contender since Spectacular Bid. Here's what he wrote at BloodHorse:

"And the reality is this: American Pharoah is the first Derby and Preakness winner since Spectacular Bid to fit the profile of a Triple Crown winner. The naming of champions didn’t begin until the late 1930s, and since then, six of the seven Triple Crown winners – Affirmed, Seattle Slew, Secretariat, Citation, Count Fleet, and Whirlaway all were 2-year-old champions (either in the Daily Racing Form or Turf and Sport Digest polls), as, of course, was American Pharoah, who is the first juvenile champion since Spectacular Bid 36 years ago to attempt a Triple Crown sweep.

In addition, Triple Crown winners Affirmed, Seattle Slew, Secretariat, Citation, Count Fleet, War Admiral, and Gallant Fox all won the Belmont Stakes wire to wire. Even the late-running Whirlaway was sent to the lead early in the race. As everyone is well aware, American Pharoah certainly fits that profile as well."


http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/horse...s-the-day.aspx

--Dunbar

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

Haskin wrote that AP was the first since Spectacular Bid to "fit the profile" of previous TC winners. But I don't think Haskin said AP was the only deserving contender since Spectacular Bid. Here's what he wrote at BloodHorse:

"And the reality is this: American Pharoah is the first Derby and Preakness winner since Spectacular Bid to fit the profile of a Triple Crown winner. The naming of champions didn’t begin until the late 1930s, and since then, six of the seven Triple Crown winners – Affirmed, Seattle Slew, Secretariat, Citation, Count Fleet, and Whirlaway all were 2-year-old champions (either in the Daily Racing Form or Turf and Sport Digest polls), as, of course, was American Pharoah, who is the first juvenile champion since Spectacular Bid 36 years ago to attempt a Triple Crown sweep.

In addition, Triple Crown winners Affirmed, Seattle Slew, Secretariat, Citation, Count Fleet, War Admiral, and Gallant Fox all won the Belmont Stakes wire to wire. Even the late-running Whirlaway was sent to the lead early in the race. As everyone is well aware, American Pharoah certainly fits that profile as well."


http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/horse...s-the-day.aspx

--Dunbar

Who knew Triple Crown winners had a profile. Did Smarty Jones get caught by Birdstone because he suddenly realized at the eighth pole that he wasn't 2YO champion?

[Indian Charlie]

Two things.

Haskin is over the top and reaching, but I see no reason to get bent out of shape. It's just an opinion.

Rollo suddenly seems to have both reading comprehension difficulties and really odd selective memory problems.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Two things.

Haskin is over the top and reaching, but I see no reason to get bent out of shape. It's just an opinion.

And yet you are quite sensitive to over the top and reaching opinions about American Pharaoh.

Rollo suddenly seems to have both reading comprehension difficulties and really odd selective memory problems.

I blame the public school system.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

And yet you are quite sensitive to over the top and reaching opinions about American Pharaoh.


I blame the public school system.

wrong again, on both counts.

You previously were very sharp, so unless you recently enrolled, that's not likely it.

My best guess would be a strong bias. Say, against the horse, connections, etc.

Second guess would be traumas, be it emotional or some sort of head trauma.

Third would be you are an imposter, not the real Rollo. Maybe you've channelled the old pg1985, smooth operator, or even Somerset.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Who knew Triple Crown winners had a profile. Did Smarty Jones get caught by Birdstone because he suddenly realized at the eighth pole that he wasn't 2YO champion?

I think it is a dilemma. The tc is a hard thing to pull off....but as ive asked here in the past, is it like flipping a coin? That is to say, just because we have seen heads flipped every year since affirmed, the odds on flipping tails on the next toss is still 50 50...

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Danzig

I think it is a dilemma. The tc is a hard thing to pull off....but as ive asked here in the past, is it like flipping a coin? That is to say, just because we have seen heads flipped every year since affirmed, the odds on flipping tails on the next toss is still 50 50...

actually, coin flips, they aren't quite 50/50.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

actually, coin flips, they aren't quite 50/50.

Even a coin flip can generate controversy on here? Im going to bed.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Who knew Triple Crown winners had a profile. Did Smarty Jones get caught by Birdstone because he suddenly realized at the eighth pole that he wasn't 2YO champion?

Right, and I'm pretty sure Real Quiet was thinking to himself, "If only I'd been 2-yr-old Champion", while they were looking at the photo.

I agree it's nonsense. Similar to many of the Derby "angles" that are coughed up each year. I only quoted it to show there was nothing in it about "deserving" to be a TC winner that I could find.

--Dunbar

[outofthebox]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Who knew Triple Crown winners had a profile. Did Smarty Jones get caught by Birdstone because he suddenly realized at the eighth pole that he wasn't 2YO champion?

I thought he got caught because he realized he was by Elusive Quality out of a Smile mare..