Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

http://host.madison.com/ct/news/loca...cc4c03286.html

Koch brothers quietly open lobbying office in downtown Madison

The billionaire brothers whose political action committee gave Gov. Scott Walker $43,000 and helped fund a multi-million dollar attack ad campaign against his opponent during the 2010 gubernatorial election have quietly opened a lobbying office in Madison just off the Capitol Square.

Charles and David Koch, who co-own Koch Industries Inc. and whose combined worth is estimated at $43 billion, have been recently tied with Walker's push to eliminate collective bargaining rights for public workers. The two have long backed conservative causes and groups including Americans for Prosperity, which organized the Tea Party rally Saturday in support of Walker's plan to strip public workers of collective bargaining rights and recently launched the Stand with Scott Walker website.

Tim Phillips, president of Americans for Prosperity, acknowledged in a New York Times story Tuesday that he had encouraged Walker even before the election to mount a showdown with labor groups.

Koch Companies Public Sector LLC occupies a seventh-floor suite at 10 E. Doty St. According to an unidentified tenant there, the lobbying group moved in two weeks before Walker was elected governor on November 2. Jeffrey Schoepke, the company's regional manager, did not return a phone call seeking more information on the firm.

Actually their goal is to use genetic engineering at UW Madison to clone the perfect laborer and eliminate all jobs for people currently employed.

Can I ask you one question? Since when is collective bargaining in the public sector a god given right?

Here is what Democratic President FDR had to say:

All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management. The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind the employer in mutual discussions with Government employee organizations. The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives in Congress. Accordingly, administrative officials and employees alike are governed and guided, and in many instances restricted, by laws which establish policies, procedures, or rules in personnel matters.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Can I ask you one question? Since when is collective bargaining in the public sector a god given right?

What does a god have to do with anything?

Legally - which is the only standard in our country - there is nothing wrong with unions in a constitutional sense. Unions are definitively allowed within our "union" of states. In both public and private sector.

Collective bargaining is an agreement, a contract, between and employer and their employees. It's pure libertarian capitalism in action - each side is to bargain towards their own maximum self-interest and benefit. They shake on the result agreement and sign on the dotted line.

So when a corporate mouthpiece like Scott Walker attempts to quietly ram through a bill ending 50 years of collective bargaining rights within a few days, with little debate - the unions, and those that support them, most certainly have every "right" to stand up for their own self-interest. It's the Libertarian, capitalistic thing to do

In Wisconsin, public sector employees earn about 5% less than their counterpart in the private sector. That could be one reason why unions still exist in Wisconsin.

Because in places where employees feel treated and paid fairly for their work, unions do not gain footholds.

Not to mention the threats to all workers on a federal level right now, where some current congressmen want to relax child labor laws, lower the minimum wage, relax workplace safety regulations, etc.

Seems unions may be more needed than ever in the next few years if those guys get their way.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

What does a god have to do with anything?

Legally - which is the only standard in our country - there is nothing wrong with unions in a constitutional sense. Unions are definitively allowed within our "union" of states. In both public and private sector.

Collective bargaining is an agreement, a contract, between and employer and their employees. It's pure libertarian capitalism in action - each side is to bargain towards their own maximum self-interest and benefit. They shake on the result agreement and sign on the dotted line.

So when a corporate mouthpiece like Scott Walker attempts to quietly ram through a bill ending 50 years of collective bargaining rights within a few days, with little debate - the unions, and those that support them, most certainly have every "right" to stand up for their own self-interest. It's the Libertarian, capitalistic thing to do

In Wisconsin, public sector employees earn about 5% less than their counterpart in the private sector. That could be one reason why unions still exist in Wisconsin.

Because in places where employees feel treated and paid fairly for their work, unions do not gain footholds.

Not to mention the threats to all workers on a federal level right now, where some current congressmen want to relax child labor laws, lower the minimum wage, relax workplace safety regulations, etc.

Seems unions may be more needed than ever in the next few years if those guys get their way.

In typically democratic fashion you didn't answer my question. Since when is collective bargaining in the public sector a right?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

In typically democratic fashion you didn't answer my question. Since when is collective bargaining in the public sector a right?

Nonsense. Wrong. I clearly answered it. Look again. Second paragraph. You know, that Constitution thingy that gives us our "rights" to enter legal agreements? All our decades of previous constitutional law that verifies our "right" to form and bargain as a union? And an employers "right" to pay all employees according to bargaining agreements they've made with a "union"?

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

Wrong. I clearly answered it. Look again. Second paragraph. You know, that Constitution thingy that gives us our "rights" to enter legal agreements?

I don't know why I even try with you. The constitution does not state that collective bargaining is a right. Legal agreements and collective bargaining are not the same thing. WI has some of the most rigorous consumer protection and labor laws in the country so collective bargaining is not needed anymore other than to negotiate on salaries, which is still allowed under the proposal.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

I don't know why I even try with you.

Can't lose the lame insults and talk about the topic? Try really hard to step out of your normal.

The constitution does not state that collective bargaining is a right.

You're right, there is no mention of the words "collective bargaining rights" in the Constitution.

Yet our legal system, up to and including the Supreme Court, for decades have ruled those very unions, in a variety of forms, legal. Legal = "a constitutional right" in our world. Do you have any compelling evidence at all that there has been no right to form unions? Because if so, you'd better tell the Supreme Court. They've apparently been wrong all these decades according to you.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

Can't lose the lame insults and talk about the topic? Try really hard to step out of your normal.



You're right, there is no mention of the words "collective bargaining rights" in the Constitution.

Yet our legal system, up to and including the Supreme Court, for decades have ruled those very unions, in a variety of forms, legal. Legal = "a constitutional right" in our world. Do you have any compelling evidence at all that there has been no right to form unions? Because if so, you'd better tell the Supreme Court. They've apparently been wrong all these decades according to you.

There is nothing wrong with the right to form unions. Unions are legal and you have every right to form a union, however last I checked we live in a country based on freedom of choice and people should have the right to choose whether or not to belong to the union in the public sector. If the unions are so great and provides such huge benefits to the workers why are they scared of giving the employees the choice to belong or not belong? WEAC (the WI teacher's union) which is funded thru tax payer money (thru paying teachers salaries) donated $1.57 million last year to 4 senate democrats because it is all about the kids.

[Riot]

Oh, gawd, this has been confirmed by Walker's office ... sigh. Reminds of when Sarah Palin thought she was talking to Sarkozy.

Only far worse about revealing what Scott Walker thinks about the unions, and how to end the impasse. Wow. Read all the way to the end and listen to the tape.

Don't these guys have aids to keep them from accidentally stepping in it and ending their political careers? Seriously. Some heads need to roll here.

Gov. Scott Walker Gets Punked By Journalist Pretending To Be David Koch

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_827058.html

And here:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/wei...nk-caller.aspx