Derby Aftermath

[knickslions2]

Originally Posted by jms62

My definition of Performance enhancing will include anything to mask pain. It is a natural instinct when feeling pain to not go to your maximum effort.. But you are far more schooled in these sciences.. Am I off in my thinking?

Originally Posted by moses

That’s my thought. My wife just gave birth last Wednesday (the baby was due in April but waited until after Derby Day, maybe she wanted to avoid seeing another Baffert horse win it?). Anyway, she got an epidural beforehand and it sure seems like it enabled her to push through the pain. Different drug but same concept - mask the pain and the horse doesn’t know it’s supposed to be hurting and just keeps running. But I defer to those with more knowledge on the topic.

This makes me worry about the entire sport though. How many people are going to read this story and say: “So they’re allowed to mask pain up to a certain point through the use of certain drugs. But if training and racing hurts these horses and they can’t train/race without painkillers and other drugs, why are we even allowing this?” To a lot of outside observers, that’s going to sound like animal cruelty.

It’s tricky. It’s not a true pain killer but more to treat inflammation. I would think they use it after a tough workout to take down swelling and have horse heal faster. Like a suped up ibuprofen delivered directly to the joints. It has a very short half life and really if was going to mask pain would need to be given real close to race day. The levels here show that not to be true. However the rules state not within 14 days of a race which clearly was broken. Remember it’s legal drug and has its place if uses as governed.

[moses]

Originally Posted by jms62

First off Congratulations. Secondly the medication debate has been going on for years and will continue after we both are gone.

Thanks and I’m sure you’re right. Would love to just see the sport cleaned up though.

[robfla]

Agreement was reached between trainer Bob Baffert and the Maryland Jockey Club on Tuesday.


https://www.horseracingnation.com/ne...nt_reached_123

[cal828]

Took me a minute to figure out where I had heard of the drug otomax. Anybody that has Labrador Retrievers is probably very familiar with it. Labs tend to get what is called otitis externa which is a fungal infection in their ears. I just looked at a small 10 mg. tube and it lists betamethasone, 1 mg. as an ingredient.

[OldDog]

An interesting read:

http://ustrottingnews.com/hrmc-recom...ation-overage/

[Conrad]

With Medina in, how can anyone bet this race?
The MJC & Stronach made a grievous error here and I hope it costs them dearly at the windows.

[-BT-]

Originally Posted by Conrad

With Medina in, how can anyone bet this race?
The MJC & Stronach made a grievous error here and I hope it costs them dearly at the windows.

I was thinking the same thing, how are we, the betting public, supposed to feel any sort of confidence that we're getting a fair shake and know that everyone is playing on a level playing field when something like this just happened 2 weeks ago on the biggest stage in the sport, and the same connections are allowed to run like nothing happened? You have a trainer who was just ruled off of Churchill Downs, admitted to using a banned substance, but business as usual and on to the second leg of the triple crown.

This is my dilemma.

1) I can blow this whole thing off and keep churning that money into the window, maybe even fading Baffert knowing he has zero margin for error in giving whatever banned substances he's giving.

or

2) Step away, keep my money in my pocket and hit this sport and the powers that be where it hurts, by not wagering.

I know by keeping my money in my pocket I'm not supporting the 99% of the rest of the industry who's playing by the rules, but seriously when is enough enough? I've been on the fence about the industry for the last few years, specifically about this issue, but nothing has changed, so give me a reason to believe I'm not throwing good money after bad in a sport that doesn't really care about a level playing field or the money it costs those who are under the impression that everyone is playing by the rules.

-bt-

[richard burch]

Originally Posted by Conrad

With Medina in, how can anyone bet this race?
The MJC & Stronach made a grievous error here and I hope it costs them dearly at the windows.

I will not bet it. I will bet other races that have no BB entries.

[richard burch]

Originally Posted by robfla

Now blaming it on Otomax.

https://twitter.com/KySportsRadio/st...851397/photo/1

A very convenient alibi. Lets say we rubbed it on him but didn't know what was in it so we can cover up the injections we give him with the same drug.

That is like saying all that THC in my system came from the hemp oil I rub on my ass that I got at CVS.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by richard burch

Well then that is a punishment problem within the sport itself in the U.S. If you let them off with a slap on the wrist they will keep doing it. 3 Strikes and ban them for life, fine with me.

This is what I’ve been saying. People are up in arms about the cheaters and talking about integrity and all that but there is no real reason why people shouldn’t cheat.

[Alabama Stakes]

Originally Posted by richard burch

A very convenient alibi. Lets say we rubbed it on him but didn't know what was in it so we can cover up the injections we give him with the same drug.

That is like saying all that THC in my system came from the hemp oil I rub on my ass that I got at CVS.

And I never believed them when they said “ that Richard Burch doesn’t smoke weed, he just rubs hemp oil on his ass instead.” My bad.

[moses]

Originally Posted by knickslions2

It’s tricky. It’s not a true pain killer but more to treat inflammation. I would think they use it after a tough workout to take down swelling and have horse heal faster. Like a suped up ibuprofen delivered directly to the joints. It has a very short half life and really if was going to mask pain would need to be given real close to race day. The levels here show that not to be true. However the rules state not within 14 days of a race which clearly was broken. Remember it’s legal drug and has its place if uses as governed.

Interesting. Let’s say hypothetically then that Medina Spirit was administered betamethasone due to inflammation and the Baffert camp thought he needed it close to the Derby. Does that not bode well for his ability to turn it around again in 2 weeks or is that totally unpredictable?

[gamblin4ever]

Originally Posted by -BT-

I was thinking the same thing, how are we, the betting public, supposed to feel any sort of confidence that we're getting a fair shake and know that everyone is playing on a level playing field when something like this just happened 2 weeks ago on the biggest stage in the sport, and the same connections are allowed to run like nothing happened? You have a trainer who was just ruled off of Churchill Downs, admitted to using a banned substance, but business as usual and on to the second leg of the triple crown.

This is my dilemma.

1) I can blow this whole thing off and keep churning that money into the window, maybe even fading Baffert knowing he has zero margin for error in giving whatever banned substances he's giving.

or

2) Step away, keep my money in my pocket and hit this sport and the powers that be where it hurts, by not wagering.

I know by keeping my money in my pocket I'm not supporting the 99% of the rest of the industry who's playing by the rules, but seriously when is enough enough? I've been on the fence about the industry for the last few years, specifically about this issue, but nothing has changed, so give me a reason to believe I'm not throwing good money after bad in a sport that doesn't really care about a level playing field or the money it costs those who are under the impression that everyone is playing by the rules.

-bt-

I'm not betting Pimlico and seriously thinking of not betting this sport at all anymore.

[richard burch]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

And I never believed them when they said “ that Richard Burch doesn’t smoke weed, he just rubs hemp oil on his ass instead.” My bad.

[Seattleallstar]

If his big owners start pulling horses, then it maybe over

[Seattleallstar]

its also important to keep in mind not to take out anger or hate on the Equine athlete, these beautiful animals have not done anything wrong.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Conrad

With Medina in, how can anyone bet this race?
The MJC & Stronach made a grievous error here and I hope it costs them dearly at the windows.

People WILL bet it. Probably in record numbers. People will watch. Because we always do. People in the industry know this. Trainers cheat. Jockeys cheat. Drugs. Buzzers. Stiffing horses. None of this stuff is new and yet it doesn't stop new wagering records from being set all the time. Medina Spirit will win and move on to NY with a chance at the TC unless he's disqualified from his Derby win before the Belmont.

[Flatterer]

After listening to Dr. Scollay explain how medication is metabolized and medication withdraw rates, I’m convinced Baffert has been playing Russian Roulette with medication his entire career.

Baffert is the Nicky (Christopher Walken) character in The Deer Hunter.

Baffert sends wads of cash to his owners every month as long as the chamber is empty. When it does go off and he gets a positive, so far it’s been just a graze wound. Baffert’s behavior will not change. It’s only a matter of time before it’s all over.

[Mike]

Should we just cave in and embrace this darker, seedier side of horse racing? Could producing a Narcos style Netflix series that depicts a Baffert-like trainer, high society clients and Arab sheiks create an explosion of interest in the game?

Why do we even think it will ever change. Baffert will win the Derby next year

[herkhorse]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I’ve given this some more thought and I’m trying to be as unbiased as possible here.

Let’s ignore the 7 horses dropping dead on Baffert with no explanation from late 2011 to early 2013. Not sure why to ignore it, but we will and just focus on the last few years.

In 2019, 17 months after he had won the SA Derby (and eventually the triple crown) it was revealed Justify had failed a drug test after the SA Derby. He tested positive for scopolamine, and it was blamed on naturally growing Jimsom weed the horse had probably consumed. The CHRB covered it up for nearly a year and a half, before dismissing the case.

In 2020, Gamine and Charlatan both tested positive for lidocaine after their respective races at Oaklawn. The positives were blamed on a patch Baffert assistant Jimmy Barnes was wearing.

Later in the year Gamine failed another post race test. This time in the Kentucky Oaks. It was revealed she tested positive for an overage of betamethasone. This time Baffert claimed the medication was given to Gamine at the proper time to allow for it to be gone from her system in time, but it still showed up.

In October, yet another Baffert runner, Merneith, was found to have failed a test in July, for dextrophan. This time Baffert blamed it on one of his grooms who had Covid, that was taking an the counter cough syrup.

Fast forward to now. Medina Spirit failed a post race test in the country’s marquee event, for the same substance Gamine was in the Oaks last year. Baffert has gone on multiple shows, had impromptu press conferences blaming everything from a groom pissing in the stall to cancel culture.

Let’s assume for a second that Baffert really is unlucky and all of these instances are not his fault. It doesn’t speak well for him as someone in charge of an operation. In fact, some might question how he is able to obtain such impressive results, since he seems to struggle with basics. At the end of the day the buck should stop with him. I get that he’s an easy going guy but at what point do you try and clean it up a little?

On the flip side, as the unofficial “face” of the sport of racing, Baffert has enjoyed almost universal media praise for decades now. He’s been able to use that praise for his benefit and his bank account has continued to grow based on it. He has a responsibility to be better. To not be sloppy with things like this.

Watching him yesterday was interesting because I think we got to see the real Baffert. Not the smooth, jovial Baffert he gives us during post draws and quick interviews before races. This was the woe is me Baffert. Baffert the victim. Baffert the guy that been enabled by racing boards, the media, racing jurisdictions, stewards, etc for far too long. In an instant all of the good faith he has built up is kind of gone because he tarnished the Derby.

I couldn’t help but think back to the raw footage trackside during the 2011 Santa Anita Handicap inquiry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRw8Lj2MGp4

It’s a fascinating look at Baffert at work and how some of his colleagues feel about him. Baffert even says to Mandella “you want to win it fair,” and Mandella doesn’t appear amused. You even get to see a tongue tied Baffert when he gets caught lying.

At the end of the day I suspect Baffert has had an edge for a long time. I can’t prove it, but where there is smoke there is fire. I don’t think these overages the last few years have anything to do with his edge. I think this is just sloppy work by Baffert and by those who he employs. I used to not understand why Baffert thinks he’s above the law, but it makes sense now. He hasn’t been properly punished for his transgressions. The multiple slaps on the wrist have not deterred anything.

Racing has a real issue to deal with. The race that even non racing fans know about has an integrity issue. This isn’t like the DQ two years ago...this is more. I won’t pretend to know what to do but without integrity we have nothing. The sad thing is all of this could have been avoided if the guy who likes to push the envelope just played by the same rules everyone else does. It’s not a coincidence Baffert has had a horse test over the limit in the Oaks and Derby in back to back years.

Baffert has no one to blame but himself.

Good post. The day of the 2011 Santa Anita handicap was the day my disdain of Baffert began.