Derby Aftermath

[Dahoss]

I’ve given this some more thought and I’m trying to be as unbiased as possible here.

Let’s ignore the 7 horses dropping dead on Baffert with no explanation from late 2011 to early 2013. Not sure why to ignore it, but we will and just focus on the last few years.

In 2019, 17 months after he had won the SA Derby (and eventually the triple crown) it was revealed Justify had failed a drug test after the SA Derby. He tested positive for scopolamine, and it was blamed on naturally growing Jimsom weed the horse had probably consumed. The CHRB covered it up for nearly a year and a half, before dismissing the case.

In 2020, Gamine and Charlatan both tested positive for lidocaine after their respective races at Oaklawn. The positives were blamed on a patch Baffert assistant Jimmy Barnes was wearing.

Later in the year Gamine failed another post race test. This time in the Kentucky Oaks. It was revealed she tested positive for an overage of betamethasone. This time Baffert claimed the medication was given to Gamine at the proper time to allow for it to be gone from her system in time, but it still showed up.

In October, yet another Baffert runner, Merneith, was found to have failed a test in July, for dextrophan. This time Baffert blamed it on one of his grooms who had Covid, that was taking an the counter cough syrup.

Fast forward to now. Medina Spirit failed a post race test in the country’s marquee event, for the same substance Gamine was in the Oaks last year. Baffert has gone on multiple shows, had impromptu press conferences blaming everything from a groom pissing in the stall to cancel culture.

Let’s assume for a second that Baffert really is unlucky and all of these instances are not his fault. It doesn’t speak well for him as someone in charge of an operation. In fact, some might question how he is able to obtain such impressive results, since he seems to struggle with basics. At the end of the day the buck should stop with him. I get that he’s an easy going guy but at what point do you try and clean it up a little?

On the flip side, as the unofficial “face” of the sport of racing, Baffert has enjoyed almost universal media praise for decades now. He’s been able to use that praise for his benefit and his bank account has continued to grow based on it. He has a responsibility to be better. To not be sloppy with things like this.

Watching him yesterday was interesting because I think we got to see the real Baffert. Not the smooth, jovial Baffert he gives us during post draws and quick interviews before races. This was the woe is me Baffert. Baffert the victim. Baffert the guy that been enabled by racing boards, the media, racing jurisdictions, stewards, etc for far too long. In an instant all of the good faith he has built up is kind of gone because he tarnished the Derby.

I couldn’t help but think back to the raw footage trackside during the 2011 Santa Anita Handicap inquiry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRw8Lj2MGp4

It’s a fascinating look at Baffert at work and how some of his colleagues feel about him. Baffert even says to Mandella “you want to win it fair,” and Mandella doesn’t appear amused. You even get to see a tongue tied Baffert when he gets caught lying.

At the end of the day I suspect Baffert has had an edge for a long time. I can’t prove it, but where there is smoke there is fire. I don’t think these overages the last few years have anything to do with his edge. I think this is just sloppy work by Baffert and by those who he employs. I used to not understand why Baffert thinks he’s above the law, but it makes sense now. He hasn’t been properly punished for his transgressions. The multiple slaps on the wrist have not deterred anything.

Racing has a real issue to deal with. The race that even non racing fans know about has an integrity issue. This isn’t like the DQ two years ago...this is more. I won’t pretend to know what to do but without integrity we have nothing. The sad thing is all of this could have been avoided if the guy who likes to push the envelope just played by the same rules everyone else does. It’s not a coincidence Baffert has had a horse test over the limit in the Oaks and Derby in back to back years.

Baffert has no one to blame but himself.

[robfla]

Now blaming it on Otomax.

https://twitter.com/KySportsRadio/st...851397/photo/1

[ADJMK]

So I wake up this morning and the first thing I heard on the oldies station (old thats me) on the radio is the DJ's discussing the positive. Probably the first time horse racing is discussed on the station. One guy says he's done some research and found out how many positives Baffert has had in the past few years and questions how is he still allowed to train.
So the guy who is the face of the sport to the non-racing public, innocent or not has given racing another blackeye, and basically ruined the Triple Crown season. You think the regular media Preakness coverage is not going to be all about Baffert?

[jms62]

A simple

"We used a legal medication and miscalculated how long it took to clear his body, may be due to having to factor in Non use of Lasix, we need to figure this out and insure it doesn't happen again"

But no.. He goes on Fox and Panders to their audience with the "Cancel Culture" nonsense.

[moses]

Originally Posted by robfla

Now blaming it on Otomax.

https://twitter.com/KySportsRadio/st...851397/photo/1

This story sounds familiar.

https://archive.triblive.com/news/bo...steroid-cream/

[knickslions2]

LOL now it’s Otomax. The vets didn’t know betamethesone is in it? While it’s possible that the levels detected could have been because of this it still doesn’t make sense as the levels in gamine were very similar and supposedly the horse had the shot. Just admit your vets don’t know what the hell they are doing. They miscalculated drug pk.

[Left Bank]

Originally Posted by senator L

What I noticed is no other trainers
are coming forward voicing their support
for Bob. That says a lot to me

BOOM!!!!

[moses]

Originally Posted by jms62

A simple

"We used a legal medication and miscalculated how long it took to clear his body, may be due to having to factor in Non use of Lasix, we need to figure this out and insure it doesn't happen again"

But no.. He goes on Fox and Panders to their audience with the "Cancel Culture" nonsense.

Originally Posted by knickslions2

LOL now it’s Otomax. The vets didn’t know betamethesone is in it? While it’s possible that the levels detected could have been because of this it still doesn’t make sense as the levels in gamine were very similar and supposedly the horse had the shot. Just admit your vets don’t know what the hell they are doing. They miscalculated drug pk.

Wouldn’t he be admitting to intentionally operating outside of the rules if he admitted to this? No way around it, that’s cheating and would tarnish his legacy. Better to be considered incompetent.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by moses

Wouldn’t he be admitting to intentionally operating outside of the rules if he admitted to this? No way around it, that’s cheating and would tarnish his legacy. Better to be considered incompetent.

Well it is a legal drug that is expected to clear the system if administered within the appropriate timeframe. That IMO is his cover for this, deem it a mistake and he doesn't come across as a cheat. Either way he isn't escaping DQ unless he is cleared on second test.

[ADJMK]

Originally Posted by moses

Wouldn’t he be admitting to intentionally operating outside of the rules if he admitted to this? No way around it, that’s cheating and would tarnish his legacy. Better to be considered incompetent.

No the rules are you are allowed to use certain medications, but there are withdrawal times that you have to consider when using.

[knickslions2]

Originally Posted by moses

Wouldn’t he be admitting to intentionally operating outside of the rules if he admitted to this? No way around it, that’s cheating and would tarnish his legacy. Better to be considered incompetent.

Just admit the mistake and move on. It’s not a performance enhancing drug. He’s just digging himself in deeper with this other crap.

[cakes44]

Originally Posted by jms62

A simple

"We used a legal medication and miscalculated how long it took to clear his body, may be due to having to factor in Non use of Lasix, we need to figure this out and insure it doesn't happen again"

But no.. He goes on Fox and Panders to their audience with the "Cancel Culture" nonsense.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by knickslions2

Just admit the mistake and move on. It’s not a performance enhancing drug. He’s just digging himself in deeper with this other crap.

My definition of Performance enhancing will include anything to mask pain. It is a natural instinct when feeling pain to not go to your maximum effort.. But you are far more schooled in these sciences.. Am I off in my thinking?

[gamblin4ever]

Originally Posted by knickslions2

Just admit the mistake and move on. It’s not a performance enhancing drug. He’s just digging himself in deeper with this other crap.

IMO, Baffert knows the split will be positive so he's building his defense for DQ.
Baffert using this excuse to say he was caring for the horse's welfare instead of knowingly cheating.

[moses]

Originally Posted by jms62

Well it is a legal drug that is expected to clear the system if administered within the appropriate timeframe. That IMO is his cover for this, deem it a mistake and he doesn't come across as a cheat. Either way he isn't escaping DQ unless he is cleared on second test.

Originally Posted by ADJMK

No the rules are you are allowed to use certain medications, but there are withdrawal times that you have to consider when using.

Originally Posted by knickslions2

Just admit the mistake and move on. It’s not a performance enhancing drug. He’s just digging himself in deeper with this other crap.

Maybe you guys are right but isn’t that the excuse that he used with Gamine? Could he use the same excuse again? And he sort of killed that option when he jumped out and said that Medina Spirit was never administered the drug.

https://www.horseracingnation.com/ne...pirit_case_123

[moses]

Originally Posted by jms62

My definition of Performance enhancing will include anything to mask pain. It is a natural instinct when feeling pain to not go to your maximum effort.. But you are far more schooled in these sciences.. Am I off in my thinking?

That’s my thought. My wife just gave birth last Wednesday (the baby was due in April but waited until after Derby Day, maybe she wanted to avoid seeing another Baffert horse win it?). Anyway, she got an epidural beforehand and it sure seems like it enabled her to push through the pain. Different drug but same concept - mask the pain and the horse doesn’t know it’s supposed to be hurting and just keeps running. But I defer to those with more knowledge on the topic.

This makes me worry about the entire sport though. How many people are going to read this story and say: “So they’re allowed to mask pain up to a certain point through the use of certain drugs. But if training and racing hurts these horses and they can’t train/race without painkillers and other drugs, why are we even allowing this?” To a lot of outside observers, that’s going to sound like animal cruelty.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by moses

Maybe you guys are right but isn’t that the excuse that he used with Gamine? Could he use the same excuse again? And he sort of killed that option when he jumped out and said that Medina Spirit was never administered the drug.

I think you can use that excuse again.... Especially if Gamine was treated with Lasix...

[jms62]

Originally Posted by moses

That’s my thought. My wife just gave birth last Wednesday (the baby was due in April but waited until after Derby Day, maybe she wanted to avoid seeing another Baffert horse win it?). Anyway, she got an epidural beforehand and it sure seems like it enabled her to push through the pain. Different drug but same concept - mask the pain and the horse doesn’t know it’s supposed to be hurting and just keeps running. But I defer to those with more knowledge on the topic.

This makes me worry about the entire sport though. How many people are going to read this story and say: “So they’re allowed to mask pain up to a certain point through the use of certain drugs. But if training and racing hurts these horses and they can’t train/race without painkillers and other drugs, why are we even allowing this?” To a lot of outside observers, that’s going to sound like animal cruelty.

First off Congratulations. Secondly the medication debate has been going on for years and will continue after we both are gone.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

https://www.horseracingnation.com/ne...pirit_case_123

"“Too many times if they have a positive, they will have a small fine,” Clément said. “The horses run under the assistant’s name for a week or two, and then it’s back to business as usual. If we want to sustain and want for the next generation to look good, we have got to take a stand.”

I've been saying this forever. This is a travesty.. If you want to straighten this out, All horses registered to the offending trainer need to be banned for the duration of the ban. They can't run under an assistant, they can not be transferred to another trainer until the ban is complete. Would be nice if tracks honor other tracks bans.... You need to hit them where it hurts the wallet... Owners too they will be the ones to put pressure on trainers to play it straight. Owner's know who plays straight and who pushes the envelop ane who is an out right cheat...