What Horses are not in the Hall of Fame you think should be?

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

He trained Road Princess.

Road Princess was the dam of the great Reign Road, the early '90s answer to Giacomo (without the Kentucky Derby win).

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by kgar311

Well why dont you show the credentials of Cruguet without his name attached to it and then ask if that jock belongs in the HOF. I'm sure 9 out of 10 would say yes

Dude those credentials are very similar to Jerry Baileys credentials.

Of course I meant 2002 when Bailey won a similar number of stakes.


Just because they let in someone with less than stellar credentials means that someone with virtually no credentials should be in? Was Cruget ever the leading rider at any meet? He was never in the top 3 in NY all the years he rode there. Seriously if he hadn't won the TC on Seattle Slew would you have ever heard of him?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by kgar311

Now look at the list WITHOUT Cruguet's name attached to it and tell me that isnt a hall of fame career

OK.....it's isn't a Hall of Fame career. In fact, it isn't even close.

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Dude those credentials are very similar to Jerry Baileys credentials.

Of course I meant 2002 when Bailey won a similar number of stakes.


Just because they let in someone with less than stellar credentials means that someone with virtually no credentials should be in? Was Cruget ever the leading rider at any meet? He was never in the top 3 in NY all the years he rode there. Seriously if he hadn't won the TC on Seattle Slew would you have ever heard of him?

Heres another nice article about Cruguet that all should read.

http://www.saratoga.com/horse-racing...n-cruguet.html

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Dude those credentials are very similar to Jerry Baileys credentials.

Of course I meant 2002 when Bailey won a similar number of stakes.


Just because they let in someone with less than stellar credentials means that someone with virtually no credentials should be in? Was Cruget ever the leading rider at any meet? He was never in the top 3 in NY all the years he rode there. Seriously if he hadn't won the TC on Seattle Slew would you have ever heard of him?

What would you say if Hoist the Flag didnt get hurt and Cruguet had 2 triple crowns under his belt, would he still be a scab?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by kgar311

Heres another nice article about Cruguet that all should read.

http://www.saratoga.com/horse-racing...n-cruguet.html

The person who wrote that article made the following quote in the comments section.

"He IS an amazing man, and no doubt the BEST, most gifted jockey who ever rode a horse."


Seriously???

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The person who wrote that article made the following quote in the comments section.

"He IS an amazing man, and no doubt the BEST, most gifted jockey who ever rode a horse."


Seriously???

Im not saying take it all as gospel, she also says he is a dear friend. But she make some good points of why type of jockey and person he was. What types of money he made lifetime 51million and this is before purses hit the roof. Not every better that lost 2 dollars on the guy can offer an opinion about who he was. Hes an ambassador to the sport and gave his all while he was in it.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The person who wrote that article made the following quote in the comments section.

"He IS an amazing man, and no doubt the BEST, most gifted jockey who ever rode a horse."


Seriously???

My favorite part of the article was the picture of Seattle Slew winning the '78 Marlboro Cup....

with ANGEL CORDERO JR up!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by kgar311

What would you say if Hoist the Flag didnt get hurt and Cruguet had 2 triple crowns under his belt, would he still be a scab?

Dale Murphy was arguably the best player in baseball for a 5 year period between 1982 and 1987. He won 2 MVP's, 4 Silver Slugger Awards, 5 Gold Gloves and made 6 all star teams. He never got more than 23% of the vte for the baseball HoF. No one argues he should be in.

Why does this matter?

Because Dale Murphy was a 100x better baseball player than Cruget was a jockey.

And noone outside of sicko Braves fans or his family believe he is a hall of famer.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Dale Murphy was arguably the best player in baseball for a 5 year period between 1982 and 1987. He won 2 MVP's, 4 Silver Slugger Awards, 5 Gold Gloves and made 6 all star teams. He never got more than 23% of the vte for the baseball HoF. No one argues he should be in.

Why does this matter?

Because Dale Murphy was a 100x better baseball player than Cruget was a jockey.

And noone outside of sicko Braves fans or his family believe he is a hall of famer.

Was Mike Schmidt Chuck Norris's brother?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by kgar311

Im not saying take it all as gospel, she also says he is a dear friend. But she make some good points of why type of jockey and person he was. What types of money he made lifetime 51million and this is before purses hit the roof. Not every better that lost 2 dollars on the guy can offer an opinion about who he was. Hes an ambassador to the sport and gave his all while he was in it.

All of which is nice but Hall of Fames should be for the best of the best and Cruget wasnt really ever considered one of the best riders in NY, in some circles he was thought of as a negative.
(a pretty wide circle i might add)

Answer the question honestly. If he did not win the TC on Seattle Slew would you have ever heard of him?

There are too many jockeys in the HoF as it is. Hell there are about 1000 times more jockeys per capita than horses.

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Dale Murphy was arguably the best player in baseball for a 5 year period between 1982 and 1987. He won 2 MVP's, 4 Silver Slugger Awards, 5 Gold Gloves and made 6 all star teams. He never got more than 23% of the vte for the baseball HoF. No one argues he should be in.

Why does this matter?

Because Dale Murphy was a 100x better baseball player than Cruget was a jockey.

And noone outside of sicko Braves fans or his family believe he is a hall of famer.

The great but how does that compare? A ball player that was great for 5 years compared to a jockey that won some of the sports greatest races in three different decades on different continents?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Was Mike Schmidt Chuck Norris's brother?

Chuck Norris never cried

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by kgar311

The great but how does that compare? A ball player that was great for 5 years compared to a jockey that won some of the sports greatest races in three different decades on different continents?

The point is that Cruget was never even considered the best rider anywhere at anytime! At least Murphy was considered the best player for a while. Just hanging around for a long time does not make one great.

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

All of which is nice but Hall of Fames should be for the best of the best and Cruget wasnt really ever considered one of the best riders in NY, in some circles he was thought of as a negative.
(a pretty wide circle i might add)

Answer the question honestly. If he did not win the TC on Seattle Slew would you have ever heard of him?

There are too many jockeys in the HoF as it is. Hell there are about 1000 times more jockeys per capita than horses.

I grew up in Saratoga and made the races there every single day of my life until I moved away when I was 22, so yes I def knew who he was. I knew who he was before I knew that he even won the triple crown. Im not new to this sport, ive been gambling since i was like 7 and been going to the windows personally since I was 12. Im a classic case of a gambling degenerate. Ill bet on 2 ants crossing the street.

And yes there are too many jocks in the hall, I said this earlier. It should be a hell of alot harder to get into the hall. All im saying is Jeans numbers compare and are actually better that alot of jocks already in there.

Im thinking in hind sight Jean got a bad rap back in the day. He WON thats all that matters, not what certain trainers were quoted as saying about him or inner circle that may have hated him because they lost money on him because of a bum ride. Jocks give bum rides day in and out now a days, it a very common occurrence, people just dont remember them as much as they used to

[the_fat_man]

I find it incredible that anyone would push the argument that that ****in' IDIOT was a good jock. He makes present day super idiots like Espinoza, Ramsammy, Husbands, Centeno, etc. look like superstars. I mean, it gets no worse than Cruget. In fact, Mike Luzzi is a better jock than Cruget. At least with Luzzi you know what you get beforehand: very simple skills backed up by an idiot's intelligence. Cruget couldn't even offer that much.

We have to be kidding here.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

I find it incredible that anyone would push the argument that that ****in' IDIOT was a good jock. He makes present day super idiots like Espinoza, Ramsammy, Husbands, Centeno, etc. look like superstars. I mean, it gets no worse than Cruget. In fact, Mike Luzzi is a better jock than Cruget. At least with Luzzi you know what you get beforehand: very simple skills backed up by an idiot's intelligence. Cruget couldn't even offer that much.

We have to be kidding here.

I think this is what i was trying to say....nicely.

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

I find it incredible that anyone would push the argument that that ****in' IDIOT was a good jock. He makes present day super idiots like Espinoza, Ramsammy, Husbands, Centeno, etc. look like superstars. I mean, it gets no worse than Cruget. In fact, Mike Luzzi is a better jock than Cruget. At least with Luzzi you know what you get beforehand: very simple skills backed up by an idiot's intelligence. Cruget couldn't even offer that much.

We have to be kidding here.

Like I said earlier, anyone of these jocks you just listed would sell their souls to the devil to have Jean resume.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Was Mike Schmidt Chuck Norris's brother?

I golfed with Mike Schmidt in Florida when I was like 12. He's pretty much a douche. I was like standing a bit behind him and off to the side waiting for him to hit his shot and he turns around and tells me to move.

I was like "ah, Mr. Schmidt, the hole is straight ahead." He got all pissy towards me the rest of the day.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by kgar311

Like I said earlier, anyone of these jocks you just listed would sell their souls to the devil to have Jean resume.

Here's the deal, however. While you and other's who, perhaps, lack a clue as to the rudimentary workings of the sport, might look at the stats and think that Cruget was actually competent --- hell, even quite good--- anyone who has been around the backstretch or bet horses seriously or even followed the game seriously or even remotely understands setups knows the real deal. Cruget can shove his accomplishments UP HIS FRENCH ASS. He got so many good horses beat and busted so many poor backstretch employees that were looking to make a few bucks betting on horses they'd cared for that rather than getting into the Hall of Fame, Cruget should get lynched. Seriously, this was one incompetent MOFO. And, complicating things was that he was smug about it. He'd come back after getting the best horse in the race beat and act as if he'd done nothing wrong. How dare anyone question him? He clearly had some superior suckup skills, however, because quite a few big outfits felt the need to ride him first call. It was a bad time overall when this idiot was riding.