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#21
01-06-2013, 12:03 PM
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The thing about logic dictating in this process is that there are plenty of elements to these discussions where logic is belied. As Privman said on Loose on the Lead today when I asked him, every year is a free standing circumstance and since there is no set formula for "older horse" v. "turf horse", voter perception rules. Yes the older horse and turf horse and HOY can colide -- John Henry -- but when Kotashaan was HOY and grass champion, Bertrando was best older male. If Kotashaan was HOY, why wasn't he top older male too? My inclination is to reward everyone that was worthy and since there is a format available to acknowledge the best 'handicap' (dirt) elder -- Fort Larned -- the best 'traditional' grass horse -- Little Mike -- and the best horse overall for the year -- Wise Dan -- I chose to take advantage of it.
__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. ~ George Orwell, 1984. 
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#22
01-06-2013, 12:24 PM
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__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. ~ George Orwell, 1984.
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#23
01-06-2013, 12:45 PM
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I once got an award for finishing 4th out of 5 in a track and field event in 8th grade. Unbridled Command over Wise Dan for 3rd best turf horse is brutal Steve. The Bertrando year, he won older male because they had a special category for turf horses.
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#24
01-06-2013, 12:50 PM
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"He has Rick Pitino's colt Siva debuting in race 7 at Gulfstream Thursday, as well as Bobby Flay's Conversationalist in the same race."
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#25
01-06-2013, 01:06 PM
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__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. ~ George Orwell, 1984.
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#26
01-06-2013, 01:14 PM
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__________________
“Once there was only dark. If you ask me, light’s winning.”–Rust Cohle – True Detective
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#27
01-06-2013, 01:39 PM
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Sharp Cat deserved recognition more than Little Mike or Fort Larned.  She was a multiple Grade 1 winner at ages 2, 3, and 4. She was the post time favorite in the Santa Anita Derby and cost Silver Charm the race. She won her final start for Lukas in a walkover in a Grade 2 race. She was getting close to invincible after she left Lukas. Look at the Spectacular Bid crop of 3-year-old males. That was the most strung out crop on fast figures at the high end ever. Horses like Private Account (sire of Hall of Famers Personal Ensign and Inside Information) and Relaunch (sire of 3 multi millionaires and dam sire of Ghostzapper) couldn't compete with the 3rd and 4th stringers. And the 3rd and 4th stringers were running numbers like strong champions most years compared with other stakes divisions, alw divisions, maiden divisions, claiming divisions, of both genders.
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#28
01-06-2013, 01:40 PM
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#30
01-06-2013, 02:22 PM
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Those dams honestly aren't that bad.
The top one was 2nd to Kodiak Kowboy and had black type. The bottom one ran fairly good numbers for a 2yo filly and was bet. Every year you have top horses from broodmares who stunk on the track. The dam of Groupie Doll and the dam of Hansen both broke their maiden at Mountaineer Park. The dam of Wise Dan and the dam of Little Mike were both mediocre Illinois breds. The dam of Little Mike was a little better racer, but she was running for $5,000 claiming tags near the end. Since Hansen won an Eclipse in 2011 and Groupie Doll will win one in 2012, I checked the 2010 winners to see if the dam of any of them broke their maiden at Mountaineer. The dam of champion female sprinter Dubai Majesty raced at Birmingham and Thistle Downs and ran for $4,000 claiming tags. The dam of Lookin At Lucky won a maiden claiming race at Sam Houston ... but no luck on 3 straight Eclipse winners coming from broodmares who got the maiden win at Mountaineer Park.
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#31
01-06-2013, 02:26 PM
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Correction, the dam of Hansen broke her maiden in a $5,000 maiden claiming race at Turfway. She won a starter alw race at Mountaineer, not her maiden.
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#32
01-07-2013, 03:47 AM
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I fail to see the point in having awards to recognize the best if you're going to award those that you don't even believe are the best. Aren't you just lowering the significance of the award? They won't name LeBron James as MVP but leave him off the all-NBA team in order to give Carmelo Anthony and Kevin Durant recognition for nice seasons.
__________________
The real horses of the year (1986-2020) Manila, Java Gold, Alysheba, Sunday Silence, Go for Wand, In Excess, Paseana, Kotashaan, Holy Bull, Cigar, Alphabet Soup, Formal Gold, Skip Away, Artax, Tiznow, Point Given, Azeri, Candy Ride, Smarty Jones, Ghostzapper, Invasor, Curlin, Zenyatta, Zenyatta, Goldikova, Havre de Grace, Wise Dan, Wise Dan, California Chrome, American Pharoah, Arrogate, Gun Runner, Accelerate, Maximum Security, Gamine
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#33
01-07-2013, 04:37 AM
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The best Older Male (traditionally the top handicap dirt horse) was Fort Larned.
The best Turf Horse (traditionally the top handicap turf horse -- and generally the one that dominated the 9f-12f events) was Little Mike. The Horse of the Year (traditionally the horse whose season transcended all others) was Wise Dan. The system allows for that interpretation and the opportunity to acknowledge each. It's not that complicated.
__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. ~ George Orwell, 1984.
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#34
01-07-2013, 07:36 AM
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If you're going to assign a general handicap to these three horses based only on their turf races in 2012...
Wise Dan is the unquestionable high weight.  Point of Entry is unquestionably going to be rated 2nd in the weights. He was a 3/5 favorite against Little Mike in the Turf Classic on very demanding yielding ground. And he was a 2/1 favorite (VS 17/1 odds on Little Mike) when he faced him on the billiard table like turf course at Santa Anita and lost by just a half length, after beating him soundly in his prior start.  Little Mike had a little bit of trouble running his good race twice in a row, even though he was unable to win back-to-back races, he scored 3 very important Grade 1 wins and had a great season. 
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#35
01-19-2013, 09:43 AM
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For those on the edge of their seat wanting to know the winners --
Watch the Eclipse awards here tonight! http://www.drf.com/news/2012-eclipse-awards-finalists This year they have hired a band to cut off any speech that exceeds the limit.
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#39
01-19-2013, 08:50 PM
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