2012 Eclipse Awards finalists

[Kasept]

Horse of the Year
Fort Larned, I’ll Have Another, Wise Dan

2-Year-Old Male
Shanghai Bobby, Uncaptured, Violence

2-Year-Old Female
Beholder, Dreaming of Julia, Executiveprivilege

3-Year-Old Male
Bodemeister, I’ll Have Another, Union Rags

3-Year-Old Female
Believe You Can, My Miss Aurelia, Questing

Older Male
Fort Larned, Little Mike, Wise Dan

Older Female
Groupie Doll, Include Me Out, Royal Delta

Male Sprinter
The Lumber Guy, Shackleford, Trinniberg

Female Sprinter
Contested, Groupie Doll, Mizdirection

Turf Male
Little Mike, Point of Entry, Wise Dan

Turf Female
Marketing Mix, Tapitsfly, Zagora,

Steeplechase
Demonstrative, Divine Fortune, Pierrot Lunaire

Owner
Godolphin Racing, Midwest Thoroughbreds, Reddam Racing

Breeder
Adena Springs, Darley, Brereton C. Jones

Trainer
Bob Baffert, Todd Pletcher, Dale Romans

Jockey
Javier Castellano, Ramon Dominguez, John Velazquez

Apprentice Jockey
Jose Montano, Irad Ortiz Jr., Angel Suarez

[Kasept]

This was my ballot...

Horse of the Year: 1st - Wise Dan, 2nd - Royal Delta, 3rd - Groupie Doll

Two-Year-Old Male: 1st - Shanghai Bobby, 2nd - Uncaptured, 3rd - Overanalyze
Two-Year-Old Filly: 1st - Beholder , 2nd - Executiveprivilege, 3rd - Dreaming of Julia

Three-Year-Old Male: : 1st - I'll Have Another, 2nd - Bodemeister, 3rd - Paynter
Three-Year-Old Filly: 1st - Questing, 2nd - Grace Hall, 3rd - My Miss Aurelia

Older Male: 1st - Fort Larned, 2nd - Shackleford, 3rd - Mucho Macho Man
Older Female: 1st - Royal Delta, 2nd - Groupie Doll, 3rd - It's Tricky

Male Sprinter: 1st - Trinniberg, 2nd - The Lumber Guy, 3rd - Unbridled's Note
Female Sprinter: 1st - Groupie Doll, 2nd - Dust and Diamonds, 3rd - Mizdirection

Male Turf Horse: 1st - Little Mike, 2nd - Point of Entry, 3rd - Unbridled Command
Female Turf Horse: 1st - Zagora, 2nd - Marketing Mix, 3rd - Tapitsfly
Steeplechase Horse: 1st - Demonstrative, 2nd - Pierrot Lunaire, 3rd - Divine Fortune

Owner: 1st - John Oxley, 2nd - Godolphin, 3rd - Reddam Racing LLC
Breeder: 1st - Adena Springs, 2nd - Darley, 3rd - Stuart S. Janney III

Jockey: 1st - Ramon Dominguez, 2nd - John Velazquez, 3rd - Javier Castellano
Apprentice Jockey: 1st - Wilmer Garcia, 2nd - Jose L. Ortiz, 3rd - Kevin Navarro

Trainer: 1st - Dale Romans, 2nd - Todd Pletcher, 3rd - Bob Baffert

[10 pnt move up]

How do you have Mucho Macho Man who won two grade 2 events over a horse who won 2 grade 1 events and 3 grade 2 events?

[pweizer]

How can Wise Dan not even make the top three for male truf horse?

Paul

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

How do you have Mucho Macho Man who won two grade 2 events over a horse who won 2 grade 1 events and 3 grade 2 events?

You mean Game On Dude? Every event is nothing more than the value of the race's grading? The performances and participants involved don't have any bearing? Mucho Macho Man was a head from winning the Classic and arguably was impeded from winning the Woodward. Game On Dude beat up on relatively little most of the year and then was shown up for being rather one dimensional when not getting his way in the Classic.. on his home track no less. I'd have put Game On Dude 4th if that was an option, but in my judgement he didn't distinguish himself to a greater degree than Mucho Macho Man in 2012.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by pweizer

How can Wise Dan not even make the top three for male truf horse?

Paul

His prize is Horse of the Year for the consistent excellence and unique versatlity. It wasn't a conventional year in terms of pristine categorization and he's not a conventional 'turf' horse. I frequently like to use the 3rd slot to show appreciation for a horse that is being under-appreciated. The first place vote is what drives the results.

[Round Pen]

Thanks for the Vote for Mr Oxley its a Shame he did not atleast make the final 3. Most don't know him But he is one of the Good guys in our Sport. Its an absolute pleasure getting to break and train his young horses each year. I know its early and hard to get a good gauge on 2 year olds at this time of year but I like the Hand we are holding for Mr O.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Round Pen

Thanks for the Vote for Mr Oxley its a Shame he did not atleast make the final 3. Most don't know him But he is one of the Good guys in our Sport. Its an absolute pleasure getting to break and train his young horses each year. I know its early and hard to get a good gauge on 2 year olds at this time of year but I like the Hand we are holding for Mr O.

I hope Jack has lots of good horses. No doubt he is one of the good guys.

[Calzone Lord]

Steve, I'm sorry, but having Wise Dan as the 3rd best older male and not even in the top 3 as a turf horse is completely ridiculous.

I understand Little Mike is an admirable turf horse who had a great season -- and I understand a case for putting him 1st as turf horse. Point of Entry 2nd? Ok. He also had a great season.

Unbridled Command over Wise Dan for 3rd is a complete facepalm ... even though I get the intent is to help Little Mike in that category.

We live at a time when compassion and award giving seem to go hand and hand. That was demonstrated by the Zenyatta vote over Blame. in a year where she did absolutely nothing Horse of the Year worthy other than losing to Blame with a great pace setup.

Alydar never won an eclipse award. Coastal never won an eclipse award, Gun Bow never won an Eclipse award. General Assembly never won an eclipse award. Sharp Cat never won an eclipse award, etc.

[Kasept]

Doug..

The way they score the thing, only the first place votes on a ballot really matter in terms of determining the finalists and winners.. the rest is window dressing. I subscribed to the Crist theory that Little Mike deserved Turf and then didn't think Fort Larned deserved to go without recognition, so I exclusively recognized Wise Dan as HOY only. It was a quirky year in that respect and I think all 3 of them should get something as opposed to Wise Dan getting 2 or even all 3 honors. And the way for me to 'voice' that was how I filled out the ballot.

Look at it like this with just the first selections on the ballot because that's all that really counts..

Horse of the Year: 1st - Wise Dan
Two-Year-Old Male: 1st - Shanghai Bobby
Two-Year-Old Filly: 1st - Beholder
Three-Year-Old Male: : 1st - I'll Have Another
Three-Year-Old Filly: 1st - Questing
Older Male: 1st - Fort Larned
Older Female: 1st - Royal Delta
Male Sprinter: 1st - Trinniberg
Female Sprinter: 1st - Groupie Doll
Male Turf Horse: 1st - Little Mike
Female Turf Horse: 1st - Zagora
Steeplechase Horse: 1st - Demonstrative

And the order in which the finalists are listed (Turf Male: Little Mike, Point of Entry, Wise Dan) is alphabetical.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Round Pen

Thanks for the Vote for Mr Oxley its a Shame he did not atleast make the final 3. Most don't know him But he is one of the Good guys in our Sport. Its an absolute pleasure getting to break and train his young horses each year. I know its early and hard to get a good gauge on 2 year olds at this time of year but I like the Hand we are holding for Mr O.

Mitch,

As Andy says, Oxley deserves respect and appreciation for his ongoing dedication to the game. His year jumped out at me when looking at the stats and after having his horses kept prisoner by Ward for the last 10+ years, I thought he should be recognized for re-booting his operation. Best for '13 to you, the Casses and Oxley.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Doug..

The way they score the thing, only the first place votes on a ballot really matter in terms of determining the finalists and winners.. the rest is window dressing. I subscribed to the Crist theory that Little Mike deserved Turf and then didn't think Fort Larned deserved to go without recognition, so I exclusively recognized Wise Dan as HOY only. It was a quirky year in that respect and I think all 3 of them should get something as opposed to Wise Dan getting 2 or even all 3 honors. And the way for me to 'voice' that was how I filled out the ballot.

They use a 10-5-1 point system for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.

So, 3rd does count for a point and 2nd certainly matters.

Maybe they can make more awards like the Vox Populi for recognition in regard to horses who could have won divisions in other years, but might come up short this time.

If Wise Dan is your horse of the year -- he should certainly be in the top 3 in some other category. Logic dictates.

Dale Romans should be offended if he sees that ballot...

Shackleford 2nd for older male and Little Mike 1st in the turf category with no Wise Dan anywhere in sight ... it's almost like you're implying that Romans isn't a competent trainer and these horses deserve special recognition or extra credit for overcoming his bad training.

That is until Dale Romans reads he's been selected your outstanding trainer of the year.

[Calzone Lord]

How I would have voted...

Horse of the Year
Wise Dan, Fort Larned, Game On Dude

2-Year-Old Male
Shanghai Bobby, Overanalyze, Normandy Invasion

2-Year-Old Female
Beholder, Dreaming of Julia, Executiveprivilege

3-Year-Old Male
I’ll Have Another, Bodemeister, Union Rags

3-Year-Old Female
Questing, My Miss Aurelia, Contested

Older Male
Wise Dan, Fort Larned, Game on Dude

Older Female
Royal Delta, Groupie Doll, Include Me Out

Male Sprinter
Trinniberg, Amazombie, Emcee

Female Sprinter
Groupie Doll, Contested, Beholder

Turf Male
Wise Dan, Point of Entry, Little Mike

Trainer
Bob Baffert, Mike Hushion, Todd Pletcher

Jockey
Ramon Dominguez, Jose Lezcano, Javier Castellano

Apprentice Jockey
Wilmer Garcia, Jilver Charmafi, Irad Ortiz Jr.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

How I would have voted...

Horse of the Year
Wise Dan, Fort Larned, Game On Dude

2-Year-Old Male
Shanghai Bobby, Overanalyze, Normandy Invasion

2-Year-Old Female
Beholder, Dreaming of Julia, Executiveprivilege

3-Year-Old Male
I’ll Have Another, Bodemeister, Union Rags

3-Year-Old Female
Questing, My Miss Aurelia, Contested

Older Male
Wise Dan, Fort Larned, Game on Dude

Older Female
Royal Delta, Groupie Doll, Include Me Out

Male Sprinter
Trinniberg, Amazombie, Emcee

Female Sprinter
Groupie Doll, Contested, Beholder

Turf Male
Wise Dan, Point of Entry, Little Mike

Trainer
Bob Baffert, Mike Hushion, Todd Pletcher

Jockey
Ramon Dominguez, Jose Lezcano, Javier Castellano

Apprentice Jockey
Wilmer Garcia, Jilver Charmafi, Irad Ortiz Jr.

I'm surprised you don't have Dale Romans in your final 3 for trainer. His barn was outstanding from start to finish, better than 25% in Grade I races with a $3.61 ROI. Unlike Todd Pletcher, who was 4-14 in Grade I races for 2YOs, all of Romans' Grade Is were with 3YO and up on turf, dirt and synthetic. He got 2 Grade Is out of Tapitsfly. That's Eclipse worthy alone.

As far as Wise Dan, in my opinion, he is deserving of Horse of the Year and Older turf male, which is unfortunate for horses like Little Mike and Point of Entry, who both had phenomenal years. If we would like in the end for the Older Male Eclipse to be more of a dirt-oriented award, which I would, then I'd vote for Fort Larned.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

How I would have voted...

Horse of the Year
Wise Dan, Fort Larned, Game On Dude

2-Year-Old Male
Shanghai Bobby, Overanalyze, Normandy Invasion

2-Year-Old Female
Beholder, Dreaming of Julia, Executiveprivilege

3-Year-Old Male
I’ll Have Another, Bodemeister, Union Rags

3-Year-Old Female
Questing, My Miss Aurelia, Contested

Older Male
Wise Dan, Fort Larned, Game on Dude

Older Female
Royal Delta, Groupie Doll, Include Me Out

Male Sprinter
Trinniberg, Amazombie, Emcee

Female Sprinter
Groupie Doll, Contested, Beholder
Turf Male
Wise Dan, Point of Entry, Little Mike

Trainer
Bob Baffert, Mike Hushion, Todd Pletcher

Jockey
Ramon Dominguez, Jose Lezcano, Javier Castellano

Apprentice Jockey
Wilmer Garcia, Jilver Charmafi, Irad Ortiz Jr.

Let's discuss the three I highlighted...

Amazombie? Ah, no.

Beholder? Not eligible.

Wilmer Garcia???? I beg to differ. I know he's the board darling, and I wish him a speedy recovery, but Jose Ortiz rides circles around him.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Let's discuss the three I highlighted...

Amazombie? Ah, no.

Beholder? Not eligible.

Wilmer Garcia???? I beg to differ. I know he's the board darling, and I wish him a speedy recovery, but Jose Ortiz rides circles around him.

Amazombie tailed off (ala Questing) -- but he was the consensus top rated sprinter heading into the fall and no one did anything impressive as he tailed off. He was still the Breeders Cup Sprint favorite despite an absolutely dreadful prep race. To me, he won the first half of the year and Trinniberg won the second half by winning the definitive race.

As for Beholder -- I thought the award was for "outstanding female sprinter" -- since I don't vote, or pay much attention to these, I think it is appropriate to put her into the 3rd spot on the simple fact that her prep for the BC Juvie fillies produced a higher speed figure than any Breeders Cup Sprint entrant on everyones figures.

I will take your word on the apprentice jockeys of New York.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I'm surprised you don't have Dale Romans in your final 3 for trainer.

Romans had a great year.

He was a 16% trainer who was 4th in earnings. I don't knock anyone who wanted to put him top 3 or even first.

[Calzone Lord]

Here was one of the more head scratching things you'll ever see ... Beholder, in her six furlong prep for the BC Juvie Fillies and first career dirt start, running faster (90) than any Breeders Cup Sprint entrants last 3 races (88)






And that's on a pace adjusted figure! Her Beyer of 108 was also the same Trinniberg earned while winning the Breeders Cup Sprint.

Obviously, these things are supposed to be about accomplishments throughout a year more than performance ... but I think Beholder is simply a much better dirt sprinter than any female to race last year with the exception of Groupie Doll and Contested.

Avoiding the duel with Kauai Katie was obviously big for her in the BC Juvie Fillies ... but I think she's MUCH better as a sprinter.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Kasept

You mean Game On Dude? Every event is nothing more than the value of the race's grading? The performances and participants involved don't have any bearing? Mucho Macho Man was a head from winning the Classic and arguably was impeded from winning the Woodward. Game On Dude beat up on relatively little most of the year and then was shown up for being rather one dimensional when not getting his way in the Classic.. on his home track no less. I'd have put Game On Dude 4th if that was an option, but in my judgement he didn't distinguish himself to a greater degree than Mucho Macho Man in 2012.

If we just went on who they beat in socal then Zenyatta should never have won very much, she never beat much of anything out there. You show up for grade 1 events and win them, often in dominating fast performances and its your fault no one else showed up. Why have a grading system at all?

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

If we just went on who they beat in socal then Zenyatta should never have won very much, she never beat much of anything out there. You show up for grade 1 events and win them, often in dominating fast performances and its your fault no one else showed up. Why have a grading system at all?

Game on Dude shouldn't win anything, but he got screwed on the basis of one bad performance.

The fact that Little Mike is actually an older male finalist over him pretty much shows you that the voting biased against the horse tailing off or the horse who bombs on BC day is still there. He is a main track horse, Little Mike is a turf horse.

I would be shocked if Questing wins...even though there is no one else to give it to in that category.

There has always been a strong bias against the horse who tails off late in the season or doesn't fire in the Breeders Cup.