Divisional best by decade since 1900

[slotdirt]

As I mentioned in an earlier thread today, Gallorette was a multi-GI winner against males in two distinctly different disciplines...as a six year old mare. And she was beating HOF'ers to boot. Is there even a modern-day equivalent to that?

ETA - how awesome were the fillies/mares from 1944-1948 or so? Three legit hall of famers on the track at the same time.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

1940's:

2yo: Count Fleet

Very interesting and nicely-assembled list.

My one question is about this one. How close was it between Count Fleet and Citation (who I assume was second) in your mind? I take it you didn't hold it against Count Fleet that it took him a few races to get going.

I guess the same question could be asked in other divisions as well. When comparing Bernardini to, for example, Curlin or Rachel Alexandra how much do you count Bernardini's debut against him? Does it matter that he started off his 3yo season with a defeat in a MSW, or do you primarily just look at how good the horses were once they got going and were running at their preferred distances, etc.?

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

He gave Ghostzapper a great race in the Woodward when he floated him out to the hot dog stand. His Woodward win the following year was tainted by the fact Dutrow used two rabbits to take care of Commentator...leaving only Sir Shackelton to beat. He beat Flower Alley and Perfect Drift in a BC Classic that was as slow as any figure wise since this past years.

I don't think SL was quite as good as Ghostzapper, Mineshaft, or MDO - he had some races that could beat Invasor, but I think Invasor beat a lot better BC Classic field.

St. Liam also went to Cali and got drilled by Rock Hard Ten. I want to say SL was even money or less. He also lost to Commentator that year when he was 3-5. It would be close to impossible to put him on that list.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Devil Diver merits an honorable mention in the 40's, no? And what do you do in a survey like this with my favorite, Gallorette?

The older horses of the 40's was a whole lot of splitting hairs. Devil Diver had a strong case for inclusion, as did other like Stymie and Assault (his 4yo form was solid) - One of those divisions where very little, if anything, seemed to seperate like 1 through 8.

Gallorette was easily one of the great race mares of all-time - and she faced a lot of strong male competition at several points - but her case for inclusion isn't very good unless you're graded fillies and mares on a curve - in which case, she's a total shoe-in for inclusion.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by miraja2

Very interesting and nicely-assembled list.

My one question is about this one. How close was it between Count Fleet and Citation (who I assume was second) in your mind? I take it you didn't hold it against Count Fleet that it took him a few races to get going.

I guess the same question could be asked in other divisions as well. When comparing Bernardini to, for example, Curlin or Rachel Alexandra how much do you count Bernardini's debut against him? Does it matter that he started off his 3yo season with a defeat in a MSW, or do you primarily just look at how good the horses were once they got going and were running at their preferred distances, etc.?

Count Fleet's route races at age 2 were absolutely superior performances. I don't hold his early season sprints that much against him - a field of 14 and field of 16 for babies going 5f and 5.5f - the chart indicated he had trouble in both races and he finished 2nd.

I didn't hold Bernardini's debut against him that much - heck, for an A. P. Indy first-time-starter going 6f - it sure wasn't bad. I don't think he faced any serious competition at all - to say the least - until the Breeders Cup Classic ... which he would have certainly won with a competent ride .. and I say that as someone who bet against him in that race. I think Tiznow was the best 3yo of that decade. However, I held the fact that he missed the triple crown series and pretty much the entire first half of the season against him... more than I held Smarty Jones missing the 2nd half of the season against him. As we know, the first half of the season is made to be all about the 3yo division.

[King Glorious]

I've always had a huge problem with Mineshaft getting as much credit as he does and being named HOY in 2003. While he certainly was a good horse, they were extremely fortunate that year with him. While you don't ever want to criticize anyone for chosing a schedule that includes the Pimlico Special, Foster, Suburban, Woodward, and JCGC because those are the races you are supposed to run in with a horse of that caliber, I think that you have to look deeper than the names of the races that year. It's not his/their fault that none of the other top older males showed up to face him in those races. Most of the supporters of Mineshaft say that they were ducking him. I don't think that was the case at all. Either way, there remains the simple fact that 2003 was a pretty good year for the older male division. That season, we had Candy Ride, Medaglia d'Oro, Pleasantly Perfect, Congaree, Perfect Drift, Mineshaft, and Milwaukee Brew. While most of those horses were locking horns with each other several times during the year, taking turns knocking each other off and tarnishing each other's records, Mineshaft got away virtually unscathed. I think that those seven I named above were the general consensus seven top older males that year and Mineshaft only had to face ONE of them (Perfect Drift) and he only faced that one horse ONE time (in the Foster) and he LOST that one matchup. I feel like in a lot of ways, that situation is not unlike 2010 with Zenyatta. While Blame was taking on the best of the older horses all year (Battle Plan, Haynesfield, and Quality Road), Zenyatta was facing second and third rate horses all year and beating them and then in her one matchup with a top horse, she lost. If you wonder where this current trend of connections playing duck soup really took off, where less became more, I think 2003 is a good place to start.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

If you wonder where this current trend of connections playing duck soup really took off, where less became more, I think 2003 is a good place to start.

This is preposterous.

Mineshaft- 9 starts.
Congaree- 9 starts.
Medaglia D'Oro- 5 starts.
Pleasantly Perfect- 4 starts.
Milwaukee Brew- 4 starts.
Candy Ride- 3 starts.

Congaree was dusted in the Met Mile and beaten on the square in both the Kentucky Cup and the Breeder's Cup.

Pleasantly Perfect and Milwaukee Brew were opportunists at best.

Perfect Drift wasted starts on turf and was no factor in the BC.

Medaglia D'Oro beat the exact same horses Mineshaft did (ie Olmodovar, Evening Attire, Volponi, etc.), but lost both his starts at 10f including the BC Classic.

Candy Ride won a single main track race in a 3-horse field which included a horse that was retired 24 hours later with an injury, and he himself was never heard from again.

[Nascar1966]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

St. Liam also went to Cali and got drilled by Rock Hard Ten. I want to say SL was even money or less. He also lost to Commentator that year when he was 3-5. It would be close to impossible to put him on that list.

Didnt the trainer of St Liam put a rabbit to keep Commentator company in thier next meeting? Didn't it work? St Liam won the race. The race you're talking about wasn't Commentator the lone speed that day and went wire toi wire?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I've always had a huge problem with Mineshaft getting as much credit as he does and being named HOY in 2003. While he certainly was a good horse, they were extremely fortunate that year with him. While you don't ever want to criticize anyone for chosing a schedule that includes the Pimlico Special, Foster, Suburban, Woodward, and JCGC because those are the races you are supposed to run in with a horse of that caliber, I think that you have to look deeper than the names of the races that year. It's not his/their fault that none of the other top older males showed up to face him in those races. Most of the supporters of Mineshaft say that they were ducking him. I don't think that was the case at all. Either way, there remains the simple fact that 2003 was a pretty good year for the older male division. That season, we had Candy Ride, Medaglia d'Oro, Pleasantly Perfect, Congaree, Perfect Drift, Mineshaft, and Milwaukee Brew. While most of those horses were locking horns with each other several times during the year, taking turns knocking each other off and tarnishing each other's records, Mineshaft got away virtually unscathed. I think that those seven I named above were the general consensus seven top older males that year and Mineshaft only had to face ONE of them (Perfect Drift) and he only faced that one horse ONE time (in the Foster) and he LOST that one matchup. I feel like in a lot of ways, that situation is not unlike 2010 with Zenyatta. While Blame was taking on the best of the older horses all year (Battle Plan, Haynesfield, and Quality Road), Zenyatta was facing second and third rate horses all year and beating them and then in her one matchup with a top horse, she lost. If you wonder where this current trend of connections playing duck soup really took off, where less became more, I think 2003 is a good place to start.

Well put KG. Lest we forget that Mineshaft lost to Balto Star that year as well but in fairness that was before they gave him Lasix.

Frankel shipped MDO west after the Whitney that year and Milwaukee Brew was already out there. He chose to run them both in the Pacific Classic and i have read where people have argued that he was ducking Mineshaft. I have to disagree with that though considering that the BC was out west that year and there were a few more advantages to running at del Mar as opposed to running in the woodard or JCGC.

It could be argued that Baffert ducked by sending Congaree to turfway but that doesnt hold water because Perfect Drift was there and that horse had already beaten mineshaft.

The good three year olds coming up were either off form (funny cide), retiring (empire maker), or more suited to shorter distance (peace rules). Ten most wanted was too slow and he was a west coast horse anyway. There was Dynever but that horse could find a way to lose the cleveland cavs.

Mineshaft came along in the right year (or the wrong year depending on how one sees things). Surely he was a nice horse but unfortunately he never proved it beating any other nice horses.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

This is preposterous.

Mineshaft- 9 starts.
Congaree- 9 starts.
Medaglia D'Oro- 5 starts.
Pleasantly Perfect- 4 starts.
Milwaukee Brew- 4 starts.
Candy Ride- 3 starts.

Congaree was dusted in the Met Mile and beaten on the square in both the Kentucky Cup and the Breeder's Cup.

Pleasantly Perfect and Milwaukee Brew were opportunists at best.

Perfect Drift wasted starts on turf and was no factor in the BC.

Medaglia D'Oro beat the exact same horses Mineshaft did (ie Olmodovar, Evening Attire, Volponi, etc.), but lost both his starts at 10f including the BC Classic.

Candy Ride won a single main track race in a 3-horse field which included a horse that was retired 24 hours later with an injury, and he himself was never heard from again.

By less, I wasn't referring at all to number of starts. I was talking about taking the paths of least resistence. I wouldn't care if a horse ran twice. If they took on the toughest competition out there, I'd value that more than one that starts 10 times and doesn't face anything other than allowance competition. You mention that Medaglia lost both of his starts at 10f. While that's true, just saying that doesn't even begin to tell the story. In the Pacific Classic, if I'm not mistaken, he also broke the track record while losing. In the BC, he ran his eyeballs out while losing to a pretty good 10f horse while dueling throughout the race with another one in Congaree. This whole thing about him and 10f is pretty stupid. It wasn't the distance that found him out in either of those races. If that were the case, he wouldn't have won the Travers and lost the Belmont by just a 1/2 length, I don't care who he was facing in those races. Personally, I think too much is made of wins and losses and the actual performance is lost. A horse like Rachel Alexandra is made into some kind of superhero for dueling with Big Drama and holding off Mine that Bird or for dueling in the Woodward and holding off Macho Again yet MDO is downgraded because he couldn't hold off Pleasantly Perfect after dueling with Congaree and Winning Colors is downgraded because she couldn't hold off Risen Star after dueling with Forty Niner (and running him into submission) in the Preakness.

You talk about how Congaree and MDO and Perfect Drift were beaten in the Classic but you miss the point I was making in the first place. That they were all there to face each other meant that all of them except for one would have to lose. Congaree faced Perfect Drift in Kentucky. They both couldn't win. MDO and Candy Ride both couldn't win the Pacific Classic. Congaree, Milwaukee Brew, and Pleasantly Perfect were all in the San Antonio. This is what I'm talking about. Their records were all going to suffer because they were consistently facing each other while Mineshaft was getting a steady diet of lower level horses.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I've always had a huge problem with Mineshaft getting as much credit as he does and being named HOY in 2003. While he certainly was a good horse, they were extremely fortunate that year with him. While you don't ever want to criticize anyone for chosing a schedule that includes the Pimlico Special, Foster, Suburban, Woodward, and JCGC because those are the races you are supposed to run in with a horse of that caliber, I think that you have to look deeper than the names of the races that year. It's not his/their fault that none of the other top older males showed up to face him in those races. Most of the supporters of Mineshaft say that they were ducking him. I don't think that was the case at all. Either way, there remains the simple fact that 2003 was a pretty good year for the older male division. That season, we had Candy Ride, Medaglia d'Oro, Pleasantly Perfect, Congaree, Perfect Drift, Mineshaft, and Milwaukee Brew. While most of those horses were locking horns with each other several times during the year, taking turns knocking each other off and tarnishing each other's records, Mineshaft got away virtually unscathed. I think that those seven I named above were the general consensus seven top older males that year and Mineshaft only had to face ONE of them (Perfect Drift) and he only faced that one horse ONE time (in the Foster) and he LOST that one matchup. I feel like in a lot of ways, that situation is not unlike 2010 with Zenyatta. While Blame was taking on the best of the older horses all year (Battle Plan, Haynesfield, and Quality Road), Zenyatta was facing second and third rate horses all year and beating them and then in her one matchup with a top horse, she lost. If you wonder where this current trend of connections playing duck soup really took off, where less became more, I think 2003 is a good place to start.

Dude, ever heard of a 'paragraph' and it's proper usage?

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Dude, ever heard of a 'paragraph' and it's proper usage?

Yes, cause this is the most gramatically offensive of all posts on here. Sorry.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

By less, I wasn't referring at all to number of starts. I was talking about taking the paths of least resistence. I wouldn't care if a horse ran twice. If they took on the toughest competition out there, I'd value that more than one that starts 10 times and doesn't face anything other than allowance competition. You mention that Medaglia lost both of his starts at 10f. While that's true, just saying that doesn't even begin to tell the story. In the Pacific Classic, if I'm not mistaken, he also broke the track record while losing. In the BC, he ran his eyeballs out while losing to a pretty good 10f horse while dueling throughout the race with another one in Congaree. This whole thing about him and 10f is pretty stupid. It wasn't the distance that found him out in either of those races. If that were the case, he wouldn't have won the Travers and lost the Belmont by just a 1/2 length, I don't care who he was facing in those races. Personally, I think too much is made of wins and losses and the actual performance is lost. A horse like Rachel Alexandra is made into some kind of superhero for dueling with Big Drama and holding off Mine that Bird or for dueling in the Woodward and holding off Macho Again yet MDO is downgraded because he couldn't hold off Pleasantly Perfect after dueling with Congaree and Winning Colors is downgraded because she couldn't hold off Risen Star after dueling with Forty Niner (and running him into submission) in the Preakness.

I didn't say Medaglia D'Oro couldn't stay 10f. All I said was that he lost both his starts that year at 10f in 2003. I presume some Eclipse voters might have scored Mineshaft a little higher since he won 3 races at a classic distance in 2003, whereas MDO had none.

You talk about how Congaree and MDO and Perfect Drift were beaten in the Classic but you miss the point I was making in the first place. That they were all there to face each other meant that all of them except for one would have to lose. Congaree faced Perfect Drift in Kentucky. They both couldn't win. MDO and Candy Ride both couldn't win the Pacific Classic. Congaree, Milwaukee Brew, and Pleasantly Perfect were all in the San Antonio. This is what I'm talking about. Their records were all going to suffer because they were consistently facing each other while Mineshaft was getting a steady diet of lower level horses.

Consistently facing each other? Congaree and Pleasantly Perfect faced each other 3 times. Congaree and Milwaukee Brew faced each other twice. Congaree faced Perfect Drift twice. See a pattern developing? Only Congaree took on all comers (he even when toe-to-toe with the year's best sprinter, too).

Pleasantly Perfect made all of 4 starts, all at Santa Anita. His record "suffered" because he didn't run between March and October and he couldn't get close to Congaree without a tailor-made setup.

Instead of trying to pad your argument with nonsense, just say what your main gripe is...that Mineshaft didn't run in the BC Classic. Who cares? The race was won by the worst of your top 7 older horses that year when the beneficiary of one of the greatest setups of all time. Mineshaft had the more illustrious campaign of the bunch. The only other horse that didn't have a cherry-picked season was Congaree, but he had too many high-profile losses (Big Cap, Met Mile, etc.) to overtake Mineshaft.

I find your argument pretty ironic coming from a guy who thinks Java Gold should have been HOY in 1987.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

This is preposterous.

Mineshaft- 9 starts.
Congaree- 9 starts.
Medaglia D'Oro- 5 starts.
Pleasantly Perfect- 4 starts.
Milwaukee Brew- 4 starts.
Candy Ride- 3 starts.

Congaree was dusted in the Met Mile and beaten on the square in both the Kentucky Cup and the Breeder's Cup.

Pleasantly Perfect and Milwaukee Brew were opportunists at best.

Perfect Drift wasted starts on turf and was no factor in the BC.

Medaglia D'Oro beat the exact same horses Mineshaft did (ie Olmodovar, Evening Attire, Volponi, etc.), but lost both his starts at 10f including the BC Classic.

Candy Ride won a single main track race in a 3-horse field which included a horse that was retired 24 hours later with an injury, and he himself was never heard from again.

Maybe the way he is saying it is wrong, using words like ducking but the facts behind the argument are strong. Mineshaft beat no one at all. He lost to Perfect Drift who at some point turned into a giant hanger. The money he cost me when he hung in the Whitney, OMG. No facts to back this up just my opinion, but Im fairly certain Candy Ride would have beat Mineshaft, at any distance. I wont comment about anyone else on the list.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

I didn't say Medaglia D'Oro couldn't stay 10f. All I said was that he lost both his starts that year at 10f in 2003. I presume some Eclipse voters might have scored Mineshaft a little higher since he won 3 races at a classic distance in 2003, whereas MDO had none.



Consistently facing each other? Congaree and Pleasantly Perfect faced each other 3 times. Congaree and Milwaukee Brew faced each other twice. Congaree faced Perfect Drift twice. See a pattern developing? Only Congaree took on all comers (he even when toe-to-toe with the year's best sprinter, too).

Pleasantly Perfect made all of 4 starts, all at Santa Anita. His record "suffered" because he didn't run between March and October and he couldn't get close to Congaree without a tailor-made setup.

Instead of trying to pad your argument with nonsense, just say what your main gripe is...that Mineshaft didn't run in the BC Classic. Who cares? The race was won by the worst of your top 7 older horses that year when the beneficiary of one of the greatest setups of all time. Mineshaft had the more illustrious campaign of the bunch. The only other horse that didn't have a cherry-picked season was Congaree, but he had too many high-profile losses (Big Cap, Met Mile, etc.) to overtake Mineshaft.

I find your argument pretty ironic coming from a guy who thinks Java Gold should have been HOY in 1987.

You're getting worse. Not including every matchup:
Perfect Drift faced Congaree in at Turfway and Mineshaft in the Foster
Congaree faced everyone all year
Medaglia faced Candy Ride at Del Mar and ran in the BC
Pleasantly Perfect faced Congaree and Milwaukee Brew in February and was in the Classic.

Of those seven, all of them faced more than one other member of the group and most of them did so multiple times. The only one that didn't was Mineshaft. This is a fact that you can't argue.

I couldn't care less if Mineshaft had run in the Classic or not. Quite often, the horse I've thought should have been HOY didn't run in the Classic. Still doesn't change the fact that while the others were facing each other, some of them several times, Mineshaft got away without having to be challenged by any of them and the one time he was, he lost. Debate it how you want to but that's the truth. If he had to face Congaree a couple of times or Medaglia or Candy Ride, I doubt he comes out with the same kind of record he had.

And yeah, the Java Gold argument is the same. He only beat Alysheba, Bet Twice, Gulch, Nostalgia's Star, Cryptoclearance, Polish Navy, Broad Brush, Temperate Sil, Cutlass Reality, etc. Save for Ferdinand and Lost Code, he beat just about every other top class dirt horse out there.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Maybe the way he is saying it is wrong, using words like ducking but the facts behind the argument are strong. Mineshaft beat no one at all. He lost to Perfect Drift who at some point turned into a giant hanger. The money he cost me when he hung in the Whitney, OMG. No facts to back this up just my opinion, but Im fairly certain Candy Ride would have beat Mineshaft, at any distance. I wont comment about anyone else on the list.

What I actually said is that when you run in the races that Mineshaft did, nobody can accuse you of ducking. I don't think anyone ducked him either. It was just a case were there were plenty of opportunities around and for whatever reasons, Mineshaft was fortunate that things worked out for him where he didn't have to face other top horses. The fact is that even if one were to think he was the best of all horses that year, he won ZERO races against top competition.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Perfect Drift faced Congaree in at Turfway and Mineshaft in the Foster
Congaree faced everyone all year
Medaglia faced Candy Ride at Del Mar and ran in the BC
Pleasantly Perfect faced Congaree and Milwaukee Brew in February and was in the Classic.

Yeah, I mentioned all that already. These one-off matchups amongst a group of 6 horses is hardly "consistently facing each other" or "several times" as you have commented. The only two that faced each other more than twice was Congaree and Pleasantly Perfect.

Why is a single horse's record (Mineshaft) being pitted against 6 other horses collectively? Consider those 6 horses individually, and none can overcome the accomplishments of Mineshaft.

I couldn't care less if Mineshaft had run in the Classic or not. Quite often, the horse I've thought should have been HOY didn't run in the Classic. Still doesn't change the fact that while the others were facing each other, some of them several times, Mineshaft got away without having to be challenged by any of them and the one time he was, he lost.

He wintered at Fair Grounds, made a couple of starts in KY, and was based in NY the rest of the year. I guess the Kentucky Cup Classic, Hawthorne Gold Cup, Washington Park Handicap (all grade 2s) would have made more sense.

Don't bother bringing up forays to Del Mar. Nobody had Candy Ride at the top of their list of top handicap horses (how could they?--no one knew who he was). Guess why Frankel showed up there instead of the Woodward?

Debate it how you want to but that's the truth. If he had to face Congaree a couple of times or Medaglia or Candy Ride, I doubt he comes out with the same kind of record he had.

Yeah, it's too bad Frankel was watching Medaglia D'Oro's weight throughout the year, Congaree would only race around one-turn in NY, Candy Ride only appeared from June to August, and Pleasantly Perfect was waiting for those still in training to burn out come late October.

He did get revenge on Balto Star in the Pimlico Special at least.

And yeah, the Java Gold argument is the same. He only beat Alysheba, Bet Twice, Gulch, Nostalgia's Star, Cryptoclearance, Polish Navy, Broad Brush, Temperate Sil, Cutlass Reality, etc. Save for Ferdinand and Lost Code, he beat just about every other top class dirt horse out there.

Nostalgia's Star? I laughed.

How'd he do in the Triple Crown?

[King Glorious]

Soon as I finish looking up Hold that Tiger's record. Might as well look up Quest's record too and Western Pride and Judge's Case. Those monsters that Mineshaft had to face while the real top horses were facing each other.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

PP's of the top older males from 2003:

http://test.drf.com/eclipse/2003/pps/om.pdf


Perfect Drift was a complete and utter badass that year. His dopey trainer kept running him on turf and talking about how he was going to enter him in the Melbourne Cup.

I remember before Perfect Drift made his 5-year-old debut and all the hanging problems started - he was based at the CD training center. Before his first start that season, Wismer told me he thought something was amiss with him. He gallops horses that he trains and was on the track with him a lot of mornings. He told me not to bet Perfect Drift in his comeback race and said he thought he might miss the board - I basically laughed at him and mocked him for thinking that.

[King Glorious]

Thanks for posting that Drugs. So if my ciphering is correct, here's what I get. Out of those seven horses (Candy Ride, Congaree, Medaglia d'Oro, Milwaukee Brew, Mineshaft, Perfect Drift, Pleasantly Perfect), here's the total number of matchups against the others in that group:

Congaree-8 (in four races, one win)
(Pleasantly Perfect 3x, Milwaukee Brew 2x, Perfect Drift 2x, MDO 1x)

Pleasantly Perfect-7 (in three races, one win)
(Congaree 3x, Milwaukee Brew 2x, MDO 1x, Perfect Drift 1x)

Milwaukee Brew-6 (in three races, one win)
(Congaree 2x, Pleasantly Perfect 2x, Candy Ride 1x, MDO 1x)

Medaglia d'Oro-5 (in two races, no wins)
(Candy Ride, Milwaukee Brew, Pleasantly Perfect, Congaree, Perfect Drift 1x each)

Perfect Drift-5 (in three races, two wins)
(Congaree 2x, MDO 1x, Pleasantly Perfect 1x, Mineshaft 1x)

Candy Ride-2 (in one race, one win)
(MDO, Milwaukee Brew 1x each)

Mineshaft-1 (in one race, no wins)
(Perfect Drift 1x)
___________________

So with the exception of Candy Ride and Mineshaft, each of those other five faced another of the top seven in multiple races. It's pretty easy to see why I said they were facing each other consistently and beating each other. It's not unlike 1997 when Will's Way, Skip Away, and Formal Gold kept facing each other and beating each other up and Favorite Trick snuck in and won HOY. Again, you can't fault a horse for who shows up to face them, especially when they are running in the right races as Mineshaft was. But you also can't excape the reality of the fact that Mineshaft got off easy that year in comparison to what the others were facing on a regular basis.