Tom Chuckas on Preakness/TC Spacing

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

This is correct in so many cases, including Smarty Jones.



Rupert, injuries are all too common, regardless of spacing. I'd have to see an objective counting of horses that ran well in all 3 TC races to see if they were more likely to have a career-ending injury than horses that skipped running. Easy Goer, Sunday Silence, Bet Twice, Alysheba (he may not have run his best race in the Belmont, but I don't think you can say he didn't run hard!), Curlin, Hard Spun, War Emblem, and, Silver Charm are horses I can think of off the top of my head that ran on well.

As often happens, I liked Beyer's take on the 2-week Preakness gap, which was written before the Chukas comments, including this bit about Normandy Invasion passing up last year's Preakness:

"When he opted to skip the Preakness last year with Normandy Invasion, Porter said, “Our goal is to have a fresh horse” for races at Saratoga in August. But after passing up a golden chance to win a Triple Crown race, Normandy Invasion developed a foot abscess that prevented him from running at Saratoga; he was out of action for the remainder of his 3-year-old year."


--Dunbar

I know for a fact that Smarty Jones was in no condition to run again. I don't know where you're getting your information from.

Beyer has no idea what the condition of Normandy Invasion was after the Derby. I don't either but I can tell you that NI is not a horse that carries a ton of weight and he's not the type of horse you would want to run back in two weeks. Chad Brown is well aware of that. He's one of the best trainers in the country. I think Chad Brown has a pretty good idea of when one of his horses needs a rest.

You are right that even if you give a horse plenty of time between races the horse may still get hurt. Does that mean you shouldn't give the horse plenty of time between races? That's like saying you might as well drive drunk because plenty of sober people have accidents too. The more a horse is fatigued, the greater his chance of injury.

I am well aware that horses used to run every couple of weeks 50 years ago. I don't know why they can't do it any more but they can't. I've seen it first hand with hundreds of horses. It's hard enough to keep a horse sound running just once every 4-5 weeks. If you start running every 2-3 weeks, your horse will be toast very quickly.

As I've said before, if horses could run 20 times a year and stay sound and keep in good form, trainers would run them 20 times a year. Trainers are human. They like money.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I know for a fact that Smarty Jones was in no condition to run again. I don't know where you're getting your information from.

Larry Bramlage, via Steve Haskin, from http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/horse...s-goodbye.aspx

"It actually was a quote from noted veterinarian Larry Bramlage that ignited the controversy. Bramlage said of Smarty’s chronic bruising in the joints of all four ankles, “The risks are minor. We bring horses back from this injury all the time.”

Rupert, how do you know it "for a fact". Did you examine him, or are you relying on someone else's opinion?

Robert Clay, the owner of Three Chimneys, later claimed the injuries were more severe. But at the time of the retirement, Beyer quoted Clay as saying,

"Economics always plays into any decision," acknowledged Robert Clay, owner of Three Chimneys Farm in Kentucky, where Smarty Jones will spend his stud career. And the economics of modern-day breeding and racing usually dictate that good horses go to the breeding shed as soon as possible.

(http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-2004Aug2.html)

Also, the statements from both Chapmans at the time of the retirement did not make it sound like it was a black/white retirement decision. It was a "difficult" decision, implying that it was not 100% obvious:

from ESPN:

"This has been a very difficult decision," Patricia Chapman said on a conference call with racing writers. "We know that the public, not just the racing fans, wanted to see him run again. But if anything else went wrong, it would break our hearts."

Roy Chapman, who also bred the colt, agreed. "I'm just heartsick about it, but I think we're making the right decision to retire him."

The common ankle injuries are neither life-threatening nor career-threatening, according to Dr. Larry Bramlage, one of the world's most esteemed veterinary surgeons. Bramlage called Smarty Jones' problems "relatively minor" and traced them to the stress of nine races in eight months, including seven in five months from early January through the Belmont Stakes in early June.

"Prognosis for a full recovery is excellent," Bramlage said. "There's really nothing to worry about. He had nine hard races in eight months, and this kind of accumulated inflammation is why athletes can't stay at a peak every time.

"There are no structural problems, and the injury would have cleared up with rest.""

I'm not saying the injury wasn't real. I'm just saying what Clay said at the time. That money played into the decision.

http://espn.go.com/horse/news/2004/0802/1850769.html

--Dunbar

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

Larry Bramlage, via Steve Haskin, from http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/horse...s-goodbye.aspx

"It actually was a quote from noted veterinarian Larry Bramlage that ignited the controversy. Bramlage said of Smarty’s chronic bruising in the joints of all four ankles, “The risks are minor. We bring horses back from this injury all the time.”

Rupert, how do you know it "for a fact". Did you examine him, or are you relying on someone else's opinion?

Robert Clay, the owner of Three Chimneys, later claimed the injuries were more severe. But at the time of the retirement, Beyer quoted Clay as saying,

"Economics always plays into any decision," acknowledged Robert Clay, owner of Three Chimneys Farm in Kentucky, where Smarty Jones will spend his stud career. And the economics of modern-day breeding and racing usually dictate that good horses go to the breeding shed as soon as possible.

(http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-2004Aug2.html)

Also, the statements from both Chapmans at the time of the retirement did not make it sound like it was a black/white retirement decision. It was a "difficult" decision, implying that it was not 100% obvious:

from ESPN:

"This has been a very difficult decision," Patricia Chapman said on a conference call with racing writers. "We know that the public, not just the racing fans, wanted to see him run again. But if anything else went wrong, it would break our hearts."

Roy Chapman, who also bred the colt, agreed. "I'm just heartsick about it, but I think we're making the right decision to retire him."

The common ankle injuries are neither life-threatening nor career-threatening, according to Dr. Larry Bramlage, one of the world's most esteemed veterinary surgeons. Bramlage called Smarty Jones' problems "relatively minor" and traced them to the stress of nine races in eight months, including seven in five months from early January through the Belmont Stakes in early June.

"Prognosis for a full recovery is excellent," Bramlage said. "There's really nothing to worry about. He had nine hard races in eight months, and this kind of accumulated inflammation is why athletes can't stay at a peak every time.

"There are no structural problems, and the injury would have cleared up with rest.""

I'm not saying the injury wasn't real. I'm just saying what Clay said at the time. That money played into the decision.

http://espn.go.com/horse/news/2004/0802/1850769.html

--Dunbar

Even if my info is wrong, what Dr. Bramlage said totally contradicts your theory that horses can run every 2-3 weeks. Bramlage said, "He had 9 hard races in 8 months and this kind of accumulated inflammation is why athletes can't stay at peak every time."

I've been trying to tell you that for 10 years and you keep telling me that horses can run every 2-3 weeks with no ill effects. With regard to Smarty Jones specifically, one of the guys who was involved in negotiating the syndication deal, told me that Smarty's ankles were so shot that he hardly and any cartilage left. I guess some people would probably keep running a $10,000 claimer in similar condition but it's probably not a good idea for a horse who is worth $30 million or whatever he was worth at the time.