2014 admission hikes for Belmont, Saratoga: GA $5, Clubhouse $8

[cmorioles]

Only in racing do prices go up when business is down.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Only in racing do prices go up when business is down.

Business is not down in NY for the year. Handle is up. Handle was down at Saratoga by a fractional margin.

I understand you're completely against the price increase. However, if you grant that a price has to be charged, the new price is quite fair based on the market.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Business is not down in NY for the year. Handle is up. Handle was down at Saratoga by a fractional margin.

I understand you're completely against the price increase. However, if you grant that a price has to be charged, the new price is quite fair based on the market.

Business is down as far as attendance goes, and that is what this price increase impacts. I guess we'll see how people respond. I think on track attendance and handle will decline. The customers will determine if the price is fair. On track handle is better than off track handle for NYRA.

Customers don't care about political maneuvering between the state and NYRA. All they know is they are going to be asked to pay more while slots money is rolling in. Think about that.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Business is down as far as attendance goes, and that is what this price increase impacts. I guess we'll see how people respond. I think on track attendance and handle will decline. The customers will determine if the price is fair. On track handle is better than off track handle for NYRA.

Customers don't care about political maneuvering between the state and NYRA. All they know is they are going to be asked to pay more while slots money is rolling in. Think about that.

But why is attendance down?
Is it a matter of the economy and people just not having extra money to spend/gamble?

Is it a matter of the sports older clientele dying off and arent being replaced by younger fans?

Is it that people are just fed up trying to beat a game that's borderline impossible?

It's a shame that the people that will be punished the most are the track rats that are there day in and day out. If they could somehow come up with some special promotion for these people (such as a free monthly grandstand pass that you sign up for once a month {they do it at Monmouth}), then I really think that the effect from the increase will be minimal at best.

I just can't see the person/family who enjoys a day at the track, that goes once/a couple of times a month balking about a couple of dollar increase. Especially with these people living in an area where the cost of living is already high and everything (tolls, buses, trains etc) seem to go up on a quartly basis. I understand the sports/gambling argument, but compared to the ridiculous amount of sports tickets around here (mostly Yankees & anything at MSG), the track prices seem like a relative bargin.

As long as this is a one time increase for the considerable future, I don't see it be that big a deal.

[Payson Dave]

The spinners on give-away days at the Spa are going to be bummed...they don't contribute much to the handle but they sure enhance the attendance figs.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Payson Dave

The spinners on give-away days at the Spa are going to be bummed...they don't contribute much to the handle but they sure enhance the attendance figs.

Good point. Attendance at NYRA is sort of a flawed stat because of spinners. NYRA's attendance figures are greatly impacted by potential Triple Crown on Belmont day and weekend spinners at Saratoga.

If Honor Code is undefeated and going for the Triple Crown and 135000 people show up for Belmont day the increase will be labeled a good idea. If we have another spotty TC season and a weak giveaway or two at Saratoga the idea will be labeled a failure.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Good point. Attendance at NYRA is sort of a flawed stat because of spinners. NYRA's attendance figures are greatly impacted by potential Triple Crown on Belmont day and weekend spinners at Saratoga.

If Honor Code is undefeated and going for the Triple Crown and 135000 people show up for Belmont day the increase will be labeled a good idea. If we have another spotty TC season and a weak giveaway or two at Saratoga the idea will be labeled a failure.

Isnt this all about dressing up NYRA so it is more attractive to a potential buyer?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Only in racing do prices go up when business is down.

Outside of professional sports perhaps

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Outside of professional sports perhaps

That hasn't been my experience.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

That hasn't been my experience.

You dont live in NY.

It costs $280 for a decent seat at a Knicks game. They kinda suck. Prices havent gone down here, ever.

What about when NFL teams make you buy preseason games at full cost if you are a season ticket holder? Do they give you a break if the team stinks?

What about "premium pricing", making you pay more for games against better teams?

What about when the Knicks forced season ticket holders to also buy season tickets to the WNBA team as well?

[pointman]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You dont live in NY.

It costs $280 for a decent seat at a Knicks game. They kinda suck. Prices havent gone down here, ever.

What about when NFL teams make you buy preseason games at full cost if you are a season ticket holder? Do they give you a break if the team stinks?

What about "premium pricing", making you pay more for games against better teams?

What about when the Knicks forced season ticket holders to also buy season tickets to the WNBA team as well?

Don't forget about seat license fees. Even the Jets had the noggins to force that crap on their fans.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You dont live in NY.

It costs $280 for a decent seat at a Knicks game. They kinda suck. Prices havent gone down here, ever.

What about when NFL teams make you buy preseason games at full cost if you are a season ticket holder? Do they give you a break if the team stinks?

What about "premium pricing", making you pay more for games against better teams?

What about when the Knicks forced season ticket holders to also buy season tickets to the WNBA team as well?

I didn't realize you were specifying New York. I love visiting, but I would NEVER live there.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I didn't realize you were specifying New York. I love visiting, but I would NEVER live there.

I thought we were discussing the NY market. Teams here seem to raise prices every year regardless and there havent been many parades.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I thought we were discussing the NY market. Teams here seem to raise prices every year regardless and there havent been many parades.

New York City has a population 28 times larger than Pittsburgh.

Even though Pittsburgh has better sports teams in every major sport that doesn't involve large black men running over hardwood, it would stand to reason that ticket prices should be much higher in NYC than Pittsburgh.

There's only so much good seating at a major sporting event. I've been to Belmont Park on a major racing day before, it was the opposite of crowded. It was extremely comfortable.

How many racino's charge admission?

The people who are saying "the admission prices were the same over 100 years ago at NY tracks" are technically correct ... but that was an entirely different game. You had a bunch of on-site bookmakers working on razor thin margins, and you could pick and choose the best deals. Adjusted for inflation, "Plungers" bet today's equivalent of hundreds of thousands of dollars on a single race, sometimes.

You can gauge on admission when the takeout is about 1% and sometimes flirting with positive expectation, instead of 16%

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I thought we were discussing the NY market. Teams here seem to raise prices every year regardless and there havent been many parades.

But tickets keep selling, totally different thing. Obviously the prices are market driven. We'll see if that works at the track. The times I've been to Belmont on non-Belmont Stakes days, I was nearly run over by a few tumbleweeds.

There is a pretty good secondary market for sports tickets in New York. That means tickets could very well be under priced. That isn't remotely close to true for horse racing.

[3kings]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I didn't realize you were specifying New York. I love visiting, but I would NEVER live there.

It isn't just New York. I live in Pittsburgh and tickets for the Steelers, Penguins, and Pirates have all gone up substantially while I think attendance in all three leagues has gone down.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by 3kings

It isn't just New York. I live in Pittsburgh and tickets for the Steelers, Penguins, and Pirates have all gone up substantially while I think attendance in all three leagues has gone down.

Like Doug said, there is a finite number of seats for pro sports. There is an actual demand in most cities. Those that aren't winning and have lots of empty seats don't raise prices that I have seen as a general rule. Even when a local team stinks, people often want to see the stars on the other teams.

There is no demand for clubhouse admission to Belmont, or any admission to Belmont. I could see if this were for days with G1 races, or something like that. But a Wednesday or Thursday afternoon to see five maiden races, a couple claiming races, and some bad statebreds? Come on. You probably won't find two people in the crowd those days that are there for the sporting aspect.