2014 admission hikes for Belmont, Saratoga: GA $5, Clubhouse $8

[3kings]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

This is the fallacy we often hear. Let's try running races without gambling and see how many people show up.

I'm compairing it to other entertainment options. It has live entertainment and it charges a minimal entrance fee for it. Nightclubs with DJ's or bands charge a cover for entertainment while your local bar with no entertainment probably doesn't.

I think they are trying to draw a younger hipper more affluent crowd to the races. They know this not going to happen at Aquduct in the winter but might work at Belmont in the spring or fall. To do this they are trying to price out some of the undesirables, stoopers, unwashed people etc.... I know this is a stereotype but when I try to bring new people to the races this is often the first thing I hear.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by 3kings

I'm compairing it to other entertainment options. It has live entertainment and it charges a minimal entrance fee for it. Nightclubs with DJ's or bands charge a cover for entertainment while your local bar with no entertainment probably doesn't.

I think they are trying to draw a younger hipper more affluent crowd to the races. They know this not going to happen at Aquduct in the winter but might work at Belmont in the spring or fall. To do this they are trying to price out some of the undesirables, stoopers, unwashed people etc.... I know this is a stereotype but when I try to bring new people to the races this is often the first thing I hear.

I've heard a lot of excuses for raising prices, but there is no way I'm buying that it is to keep out undesirables.

I guess this is where the split is. For some, it is entertainment, for others it is gambling. I love racing, but take away the gambling, and I'd most likely never go again.

[3kings]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I've heard a lot of excuses for raising prices, but there is no way I'm buying that it is to keep out undesirables.

I guess this is where the split is. For some, it is entertainment, for others it is gambling. I love racing, but take away the gambling, and I'd most likely never go again.

I agree, and probably would never go again if it weren't for the gambling. I guess I just don't mind paying a few dollars for the live product.

[NTamm1215]

NYRA offers a premium product. You raise prices for premium products. Saratoga's Clubhouse admission price was lower than that of every other major racetrack in the country that charges. It was time for an increase.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

NYRA offers a premium product. You raise prices for premium products. Saratoga's Clubhouse admission price was lower than that of every other major racetrack in the country that charges. It was time for an increase.

It was only time for an increase IF the delta between handle rake and addtional earned admission is positive. Who did the analysis or was it "just time to increase it"?

[cmorioles]

Only in racing do prices go up when business is down.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Only in racing do prices go up when business is down.

Business is not down in NY for the year. Handle is up. Handle was down at Saratoga by a fractional margin.

I understand you're completely against the price increase. However, if you grant that a price has to be charged, the new price is quite fair based on the market.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Business is not down in NY for the year. Handle is up. Handle was down at Saratoga by a fractional margin.

I understand you're completely against the price increase. However, if you grant that a price has to be charged, the new price is quite fair based on the market.

Business is down as far as attendance goes, and that is what this price increase impacts. I guess we'll see how people respond. I think on track attendance and handle will decline. The customers will determine if the price is fair. On track handle is better than off track handle for NYRA.

Customers don't care about political maneuvering between the state and NYRA. All they know is they are going to be asked to pay more while slots money is rolling in. Think about that.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Only in racing do prices go up when business is down.

Outside of professional sports perhaps

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Outside of professional sports perhaps

That hasn't been my experience.

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by pointman

If people are complaining about raising the price of admission into one of the most beautiful sporting venues in the Country by two bucks, I will go out on a limb and say the loss of their wagering dollars is insignificant.

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

NYRA offers a premium product. You raise prices for premium products.

Well said, gentlemen.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

NYRA offers a premium product. You raise prices for premium products. Saratoga's Clubhouse admission price was lower than that of every other major racetrack in the country that charges. It was time for an increase.

they could charge 15 and 30 it would still be worth it

[cmorioles]

Yeah, $15 or $30 would really bring the fans in droves.

If you bet only $100, you are already paying $18-20 in admission...but everybody seems to forget that. Let's just keep tacking on more and more.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Yeah, $15 or $30 would really bring the fans in droves.

If you bet only $100, you are already paying $18-20 in admission...but everybody seems to forget that. Let's just keep tacking on more and more.

I agree with this.

As to Saratoga and the hit to those who attend most of the season, do they still offer the season pass? It has been a couple years since I lived there, but if they do still offer this, it is a great deal for frequent attenders.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Yeah, $15 or $30 would really bring the fans in droves.

If you bet only $100, you are already paying $18-20 in admission...but everybody seems to forget that. Let's just keep tacking on more and more.

This was the best comment in the whole discussion.

If I go and wager in a casino on a slot machine and bet $100 the casino will get an average of $5 pending on the game. If I bet $1000, which is my typical handle if I was to go to the races for an entire day, its $50.

If I go to the races they get $200 on average.

One is free and the other is charging, you would think its reversed on the who.

[declansharbor]

Originally Posted by 3kings

I'm compairing it to other entertainment options. It has live entertainment and it charges a minimal entrance fee for it. Nightclubs with DJ's or bands charge a cover for entertainment while your local bar with no entertainment probably doesn't.

I think they are trying to draw a younger hipper more affluent crowd to the races. They know this not going to happen at Aquduct in the winter but might work at Belmont in the spring or fall. To do this they are trying to price out some of the undesirables, stoopers, unwashed people etc.... I know this is a stereotype but when I try to bring new people to the races this is often the first thing I hear.

I know I'm only one person, but this is what keeps me betting from my recliner. The dregs of society and stench of losing at OTB's keeps me far away, and I'll only visit a top tier track once in a blue moon and that almost always seems to be on vacation.

My gambling friends who know little to nothing about horse racing sometimes ask me (crazy i know) for a play or two. Rest assured, they always have a snarky comment to me about the people that visit these betting outlets and joke about how I'll one day be one of these guys lol. Needless to say, there's a stigma that goes along with horse players. Right or wrong, it's there, and I think it prevents some of the newbie generation from jumping in feet first.

I've also wondered what racetracks would look like if they followed the NFL's footsteps in making home viewership so much more enjoyable than year's past. Apples and oranges in comparison to product, just something that crosses my mind from time to time.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by declansharbor

I know I'm only one person, but this is what keeps me betting from my recliner. The dregs of society and stench of losing at OTB's keeps me far away, and I'll only visit a top tier track once in a blue moon and that almost always seems to be on vacation.

My gambling friends who know little to nothing about horse racing sometimes ask me (crazy i know) for a play or two. Rest assured, they always have a snarky comment to me about the people that visit these betting outlets and joke about how I'll one day be one of these guys lol. Needless to say, there's a stigma that goes along with horse players. Right or wrong, it's there, and I think it prevents some of the newbie generation from jumping in feet first.

I've also wondered what racetracks would look like if they followed the NFL's footsteps in making home viewership so much more enjoyable than year's past. Apples and oranges in comparison to product, just something that crosses my mind from time to time.

This really hits home for me. I love this game more than almost anything, but I'm often embarrassed to tell people I'm a horseplayer because I'll get dirty looks or jokes about ticket pickers/bums in smelly OTB's and a general lack of respect for a craft I work really hard at. No one would bat an eye if I said I was a poker player, in fact most would probably think it's cool. I don't know how to fix it, but betting on horses has a major image problem and is just about the least sexy game in the world in the eyes of most people my age and younger. It's incredibly far from the truth, but perception is reality in many respects.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by declansharbor

I know I'm only one person, but this is what keeps me betting from my recliner. The dregs of society and stench of losing at OTB's keeps me far away, and I'll only visit a top tier track once in a blue moon and that almost always seems to be on vacation.

My gambling friends who know little to nothing about horse racing sometimes ask me (crazy i know) for a play or two. Rest assured, they always have a snarky comment to me about the people that visit these betting outlets and joke about how I'll one day be one of these guys lol. Needless to say, there's a stigma that goes along with horse players. Right or wrong, it's there, and I think it prevents some of the newbie generation from jumping in feet first.

I've also wondered what racetracks would look like if they followed the NFL's footsteps in making home viewership so much more enjoyable than year's past. Apples and oranges in comparison to product, just something that crosses my mind from time to time.

I say this jokingly, but I think you need to grow a pair. I'm a reasonably attractive youngish female who travels to all different tracks by myself and I've never found the track to be any different than anywhere else you may go.

Originally Posted by 3kings

I'm compairing it to other entertainment options. It has live entertainment and it charges a minimal entrance fee for it. Nightclubs with DJ's or bands charge a cover for entertainment while your local bar with no entertainment probably doesn't.

I think they are trying to draw a younger hipper more affluent crowd to the races. They know this not going to happen at Aquduct in the winter but might work at Belmont in the spring or fall. To do this they are trying to price out some of the undesirables, stoopers, unwashed people etc.... I know this is a stereotype but when I try to bring new people to the races this is often the first thing I hear.

The uninformed bettor make up the majority of the dead money in the pools. You want these people to fatten up the pools for you to take it away. Would you rather have ONLY saavy handicappers at the track so you can chase 4/5 shots all day? The uninformed bettor is exactly what you want coming to the track. Free admissions will invite more of these people in. I would rather see increases in prices in racing forms, clocker reports, and other sheets because this gives you an edge over your fellow degenerate.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by helicopter11

The undesirables make up the majority of the dead money in the pools. You want these people to fatten up the pools for you to take it away. Would you rather have ONLY saavy handicappers at the track so you can chase 4/5 shots all day? The uninformed bettor is exactly what you want coming to the track. Free admissions will invite more of these people in. I would rather see increases in prices in racing forms, clocker reports, and other sheets because this gives you an edge over your fellow degenerate.