Does the Public Understand Roe v Wade?

[Dahoss]

We've gone over this before. And everytime we do I try and remind you that it is not the black and white issue you try and make it. There is a lot of gray area to look at.

I guess my question is why does it matter to you what someone else does with their body if you aren't impacted by it financially?

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

We've gone over this before. And everytime we do I try and remind you that it is not the black and white issue you try and make it. There is a lot of gray area to look at.

I guess my question is why does it matter to you what someone else does with their body if you aren't impacted by it financially?

It's a complex issue - of course.

The black and white part comes from trying to make a decision between two outcomes: to terminate or not. We have only two options, so to make that decision eventually dark gray is called black and near white is called white. With broader options than two such polar opposites, it would not be so black and white.

As to why I care: I'm not trying to sound like a "altar boy" here - but it's just concern for innocent life.

Different situation, but for capital punishment, now, in 2012, I believe that DNA evidence should be used to make sure that an innocent person is not executed. Similar reasoning - we have the ability to take a life and we need to NOT do that to non-capital offenders.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by joeydb

It's a complex issue - of course.

The black and white part comes from trying to make a decision between two outcomes: to terminate or not. We have only two options, so to make that decision eventually dark gray is called black and near white is called white. With broader options than two such polar opposites, it would not be so black and white.

As to why I care: I'm not trying to sound like a "altar boy" here - but it's just concern for innocent life.

Different situation, but for capital punishment, now, in 2012, I believe that DNA evidence should be used to make sure that an innocent person is not executed. Similar reasoning - we have the ability to take a life and we need to NOT do that to non-capital offenders.

Lots of words and you said nothing.

If you have such a concern for life, why do you arrogantly dismiss the realization that a lot of babies born are born to parents ill-equipped to care for a child? And in turn what happens is the children are brought up in terrible situations and the cycle continues.

Look, in a perfect world, everyone would practice safe sex and we wouldn't be having these discussions. That isn't reality. You can tell kids until you are blue in the face to practice safe sex and they are still going to make bad decisions because that is what humans do. We're imperfect creatures, not robots.

Just so we're clear, I'm not in favor of abusing the abortion process. It isn't birth control. But it is a necessary process for some people because they just are not ready to be parents.

I don't believe it's right to demonize these people. The decision to abort seems like one that is very difficult for the people involved to make. Probably one of the hardest decisions to make and one that they carry around with them forever. Isn't that enough?

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Lots of words and you said nothing.

If you have such a concern for life, why do you arrogantly dismiss the realization that a lot of babies born are born to parents ill-equipped to care for a child? And in turn what happens is the children are brought up in terrible situations and the cycle continues.

Look, in a perfect world, everyone would practice safe sex and we wouldn't be having these discussions. That isn't reality. You can tell kids until you are blue in the face to practice safe sex and they are still going to make bad decisions because that is what humans do. We're imperfect creatures, not robots.

Just so we're clear, I'm not in favor of abusing the abortion process. It isn't birth control. But it is a necessary process for some people because they just are not ready to be parents.

I don't believe it's right to demonize these people. The decision to abort seems like one that is very difficult for the people involved to make. Probably one of the hardest decisions to make and one that they carry around with them forever. Isn't that enough?

It's the other way around - it is arrogant to presume that the only solution for "ill-equipped parents" (gee, how did that happen? ) is to kill (or render lifeless if you prefer) the living, growing organism that will be a fully developed human being.

And if I haven't been clear - it is the current state of the law that I find objectionable. That law - decided by nine unelected Supreme Court justices in 1973 - has led other citizens down this path. In other words, there was no legal abortion before 1973. In times past, people would have found a way to have the baby and make it work. Or they would have planned better.

But when the law says something is OK, and then people pursue the action, it's the law that is to blame. Someday if they regret what they've done, it was the legality of abortion that misled them.

I'm sure history has many names of unplanned children who later went on to achieve great things. It doesn't always end in a tragedy.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by joeydb

It's the other way around - it is arrogant to presume that the only solution for "ill-equipped parents" (gee, how did that happen? ) is to kill (or render lifeless if you prefer) the living, growing organism that will be a fully developed human being.

And if I haven't been clear - it is the current state of the law that I find objectionable. That law - decided by nine unelected Supreme Court justices in 1973 - has led other citizens down this path. In other words, there was no legal abortion before 1973. In times past, people would have found a way to have the baby and make it work. Or they would have planned better.

But when the law says something is OK, and then people pursue the action, it's the law that is to blame. Someday if they regret what they've done, it was the legality of abortion that misled them.

I'm sure history has many names of unplanned children who later went on to achieve great things. It doesn't always end in a tragedy.

I never said abortion is the only choice and I also never said all unplanned children end in a tragedy.

Not sure why you feel the need to be so disingenuous, but it doesn't win the argument for you. Just the opposite actually.

I don't know you, but I've always found the people who are hellbent on telling others how they should live their lives are usually the most morally bankrupt people around. I would suggest they are emotional reactions stemming from a lot of guilt. Probably a tough thing to accept, isn't it?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by joeydb

It's the other way around - it is arrogant to presume that the only solution for "ill-equipped parents" (gee, how did that happen? ) is to kill (or render lifeless if you prefer) the living, growing organism that will be a fully developed human being.

And if I haven't been clear - it is the current state of the law that I find objectionable. That law - decided by nine unelected Supreme Court justices in 1973 - has led other citizens down this path. In other words, there was no legal abortion before 1973. In times past, people would have found a way to have the baby and make it work. Or they would have planned better.

But when the law says something is OK, and then people pursue the action, it's the law that is to blame. Someday if they regret what they've done, it was the legality of abortion that misled them.

I'm sure history has many names of unplanned children who later went on to achieve great things. It doesn't always end in a tragedy.

There was legal abortion before 1973. It was up to the state before the 1973 decision. Abortion was legal in several states and it was illegal in other states. Some of the people in the states where it was illegal sued. They took it all the way to the Supreme Court. The Court ruled that no state could outlaw abortion. That was the ruling, that no state can ban abortion. So all the states where it was illegal had to change their laws. In all the other states, where abortion was already legal, it obviously stayed legal.

So if Roe v Wade is overturned, all that will mean is that states will once again have the right to decide for themselves. If that happens, some of the really conservative states may once again outlaw abortion. Which states are the most conservative? A couple of the states that come mind are states like Wyoming and Mississippi. Those two states would be two of the most likely to pass laws outlawing abortion.