Does the Public Understand Roe v Wade?

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Ayn Rand on abortion:

"If any among you are confused or taken in by the argument that the cells of an embryo are living human cells, remember that so are all the cells of your body, including the cells of your skin, your tonsils, or your ruptured appendix—and that cutting them is murder, according to the notions of that proposed law. Remember also that a potentiality is not the equivalent of an actuality—and that a human being’s life begins at birth.

The question of abortion involves much more than the termination of a pregnancy: it is a question of the entire life of the parents. As I have said before, parenthood is an enormous responsibility; it is an impossible responsibility for young people who are ambitious and struggling, but poor; particularly if they are intelligent and conscientious enough not to abandon their child on a doorstep nor to surrender it to adoption. For such young people, pregnancy is a death sentence: parenthood would force them to give up their future, and condemn them to a life of hopeless drudgery, of slavery to a child’s physical and financial needs. The situation of an unwed mother, abandoned by her lover, is even worse.

I cannot quite imagine the state of mind of a person who would wish to condemn a fellow human being to such a horror. I cannot project the degree of hatred required to make those women run around in crusades against abortion. Hatred is what they certainly project, not love for the embryos, which is a piece of nonsense no one could experience, but hatred, a virulent hatred for an unnamed object. Judging by the degree of those women’s intensity, I would say that it is an issue of self-esteem and that their fear is metaphysical. Their hatred is directed against human beings as such, against the mind, against reason, against ambition, against success, against love, against any value that brings happiness to human life. In compliance with the dishonesty that dominates today’s intellectual field, they call themselves “pro-life.”

By what right does anyone claim the power to dispose of the lives of others and to dictate their personal choices?"

Interesting post.

"For such young people, pregnancy is a death sentence" This is obviously figurative.

Abortion is always a death sentence for the aborted. This is quite literal.

So, if we must choose between the figurative death sentence and the real one, ummm.... I'm thinking we avoid the real one.

[Antitrust32]

the first paragraph was plain stupid. i'm sorry, but abortion is not equal to cutting your fingernails or having your appendix removed.

2nd paragraph is the best of the three

the 3rd paragraph has the word "hate" in it way too much, and makes Ayn Rand look like a looney.

and the adoption line is just stupid.

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

the first paragraph was plain stupid. i'm sorry, but abortion is not equal to cutting your fingernails or having your appendix removed.

2nd paragraph is the best of the three

the 3rd paragraph has the word "hate" in it way too much, and makes Ayn Rand look like a looney.

and the adoption line is just stupid.

The first paragraph was a mockery of the religious pro-life nutter belief. And it was funny to me.

Originally Posted by joeydb

Interesting post.

"For such young people, pregnancy is a death sentence" This is obviously figurative.

Abortion is always a death sentence for the aborted. This is quite literal.

So, if we must choose between the figurative death sentence and the real one, ummm.... I'm thinking we avoid the real one.

Ayn Rand was right. You're wrong. The "life" you claim exists immediately due to the mistake of a living being is really none of your business.

You complain about liberals wanting too much control of our lives while talking out the other side of your mouth that you want control over others.

Stop being a dic.khead.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Ayn Rand was right. You're wrong. The "life" you claim exists immediately due to the mistake of a living being is really none of your business.

You complain about liberals wanting too much control of our lives while talking out the other side of your mouth that you want control over others.

Stop being a dic.khead.

So Ayn Rand is right about a figurative "death sentence", but in citing the real death caused by abortion I am wrong? Brilliant point - really.

I don't want to control anybody. I want there to be less murder of innocent babies - we call that abortion. I want people to think before they take risks, if they decide to take the risk anyway to realize they have the responsibility for what comes next, and that murdering an innocent person (their child) is not an option. Oh yeah - I'm a real control freak for that.

Your last statement is meaningless except as an admission that you have lost the argument by reverting to personal insults. You have nothing left to offer. Your well has run dry.

How about the person(s) who commit this murder called abortion? Have any special insults for them? I didn't kill anybody, so your words for them must be even more severe.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by joeydb

So Ayn Rand is right about a figurative "death sentence", but in citing the real death caused by abortion I am wrong? Brilliant point - really.

I don't want to control anybody. I want there to be less murder of innocent babies - we call that abortion. I want people to think before they take risks, if they decide to take the risk anyway to realize they have the responsibility for what comes next, and that murdering an innocent person (their child) is not an option. Oh yeah - I'm a real control freak for that.

Your last statement is meaningless except as an admission that you have lost the argument by reverting to personal insults. You have nothing left to offer. Your well has run dry.

How about the person(s) who commit this murder called abortion? Have any special insults for them? I didn't kill anybody, so your words for them must be even more severe.

then it should please you to know that the number of abortions performed annually has seen a steady decline over the last 20 years or so. that's without reversing roe v wade.
since birth rates are also down, it would indicate that the moves to educate more people about bc is working, and that people are mitigating risk.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Danzig

then it should please you to know that the number of abortions performed annually has seen a steady decline over the last 20 years or so. that's without reversing roe v wade.
since birth rates are also down, it would indicate that the moves to educate more people about bc is working, and that people are mitigating risk.

Absolutely. It would be great if people didn't seek out abortion, abandoning the practice like they have abandoned smoking. And education should continue in that vein and hopefully more and more people will come to respect life, plan their family expansion according to their situation and what they can accommodate and take precautions.

I would not be as forceful on this subject except for the fact that I really do believe that life begins at conception. It's about the kids. We reserve our worst punishments for those who commit crimes against children - except if they are killed in utero. Very strange set of values our society has conglomerated.

The person making the "choice" is not the same person who is dying. That's a big problem.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Absolutely. It would be great if people didn't seek out abortion, abandoning the practice like they have abandoned smoking. And education should continue in that vein and hopefully more and more people will come to respect life, plan their family expansion according to their situation and what they can accommodate and take precautions.

I would not be as forceful on this subject except for the fact that I really do believe that life begins at conception. It's about the kids. We reserve our worst punishments for those who commit crimes against children - except if they are killed in utero. Very strange set of values our society has conglomerated.

The person making the "choice" is not the same person who is dying. That's a big problem.

and many, including myself, don't think life begins at conception. i know others are like yourself, and believe otherwise. i have no issue with your beliefs at all. however, much like you said above about biden, i also think people should decide for themselves, which is why the law should be left alone. that way, people can do just that.

one concern i do have tho, is many of the same who want roe v wade changed, also advocate getting rid of birth control. imo that is absolutely ludicrous as a viable suggestion, and is another example of people trying to force their beliefs on others. if people want to use the rhythm method, hey, more power to them. but i'd rather stick to tried and true methods. they say god will provide, i say he already has-he's given us the mental ability to learn how to prevent unwanted pregnancies.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Danzig

one concern i do have tho, is many of the same who want roe v wade changed, also advocate getting rid of birth control. imo that is absolutely ludicrous as a viable suggestion, and is another example of people trying to force their beliefs on others. if people want to use the rhythm method, hey, more power to them. but i'd rather stick to tried and true methods. they say god will provide, i say he already has-he's given us the mental ability to learn how to prevent unwanted pregnancies.

I agree with you there. There is no issue with birth control the way I see it. It's not a singular living thing until both sperm and egg join, creating a unique new DNA series and a singular, growing organism. Keeping these two things apart is perfectly fine since you will not start the process of DNA definition and subsequent growth.

I see this strictly from a science point of view of defining where human life must begin. To be a human you have to have 46 chromosomes, not just 23 like reproductive cells do. And you have to be in one piece - whether that's a zygote, blastocyst, embryo, fetus, etc.

Originally Posted by joeydb

So Ayn Rand is right about a figurative "death sentence", but in citing the real death caused by abortion I am wrong? Brilliant point - really.

I don't want to control anybody. I want there to be less murder of innocent babies - we call that abortion. I want people to think before they take risks, if they decide to take the risk anyway to realize they have the responsibility for what comes next, and that murdering an innocent person (their child) is not an option. Oh yeah - I'm a real control freak for that.

Your last statement is meaningless except as an admission that you have lost the argument by reverting to personal insults. You have nothing left to offer. Your well has run dry.

How about the person(s) who commit this murder called abortion? Have any special insults for them? I didn't kill anybody, so your words for them must be even more severe.

You're offended over my insult yet are calling anyone who has an abortion a murderer.

You're a class A dic.khead and a punk. Everything that's wrong with this country.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

You're offended over my insult yet are calling anyone who has an abortion a murderer.

You're a class A dic.khead and a punk. Everything that's wrong with this country.

"Murderer" is not an insult. It is the accurate technical description for someone who chooses to act to take a life of someone else without justification.

You cannot "insult" someone by calling them a murderer if they have not killed anyone. A fetus is a living thing until aborted. Sounds like murder to me.

Those at PETA think it's murder to slay a steer to make filet mignon. Some of those same people don't see it that way with abortion.

So perspective is important.

Your vocabulary hasn't improved much since your last post.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by joeydb;895505[B

]"Murderer" is not an insult.[/b] It is the accurate technical description for someone who chooses to act to take a life of someone else without justification.

You cannot "insult" someone by calling them a murderer if they have not killed anyone. A fetus is a living thing until aborted. Sounds like murder to me.

Those at PETA think it's murder to slay a steer to make filet mignon. Some of those same people don't see it that way with abortion.

So perspective is important.

Your vocabulary hasn't improved much since your last post.

sure it is. a murder is committed against a person. a living being. a fetus isn't a person, or a living being. it could eventually become one. your opinion on when life begins doesn't make you judge and jury. i think the world would be a lot better place if people would all mind their own business, and just treat each other with common courtesy, rather than worry about what somone might be doing that doesn't involve you at all. it's none of your business.