NY Task Force on Racehorse Health & Safety Report, Reccos

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You made it personal dude. For some reason people like you think that trainers can just be insulted without recourse because we are all drug addled, cheats or idiots depending on what our win % is.

Before I read the rest of this diatribe, where did I insult you and make it personal before you called me a troll? Did saying I couldn't discuss drugs with a trainer really considered an insult?

I notice you ignored the PA thing. At least for once you realized you were off base.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Before I read the rest of this diatribe, where did I insult you and make it personal before you called me a troll? Did saying I couldn't discuss drugs with a trainer really considered an insult?

I notice you ignored the PA thing. At least for once you realized you were off base.

I make several points and you act as though you are above discussing the topic with me because I am a trainer? How is that not insulting?

You ignored virtually every point that I made and I didnt call you a troll, I said you come off like one. You are the one who is concerned with semantics. As for the paceadvantage thing who really cares? It was an off the cuff attempt at humor.

As for being off base that's nonsense. If I made some silly remark about speed figures or something that you have intimate knowledge of I find it hard to believe that you wouldnt be quick to comment or correct me. Seriously what did I say about the topic that you found to be incorrect?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I make several points and you act as though you are above discussing the topic with me because I am a trainer? How is that not insulting?

You ignored virtually every point that I made and I didnt call you a troll, I said you come off like one. You are the one who is concerned with semantics. As for the paceadvantage thing who really cares? It was an off the cuff attempt at humor.

As for being off base that's nonsense. If I made some silly remark about speed figures or something that you have intimate knowledge of I find it hard to believe that you wouldnt be quick to comment or correct me. Seriously what did I say about the topic that you found to be incorrect?

This all started because I mentioned about using clenbuterol every day without knowing for sure it would be beneficial. If you don't see anything wrong with that, there just wasn't much to discuss because we'll never agree.

How is giving clenbuterol to a kid that has asthma remotely close to giving it to a horse because it might be beneficial, and doing it every day? If you want to argue that point, you'll need to do it with those that wrote the report. I don't think they are on any side of the drug issue. They just presented the facts.

Really, this sums up the whole thing:

How can I defend giving clenbuterol? Seriously? You have zero knowledge of the medication or even racehorses in general but you are going to question me?

You know nothing about me, or what I know, but on the other hand think you know everything about every subject. I know you are the tsar of Derby Trail. From now on I'll bow down to your greatness.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

This all started because I mentioned about using clenbuterol every day without knowing for sure it would be beneficial. If you don't see anything wrong with that, there just wasn't much to discuss because we'll never agree.

How is giving clenbuterol to a kid that has asthma remotely close to giving it to a horse because it might be beneficial, and doing it every day? If you want to argue that point, you'll need to do it with those that wrote the report. I don't think they are on any side of the drug issue. They just presented the facts.

Really, this sums up the whole thing:



You know nothing about me, or what I know, but on the other hand think you know everything about every subject. I know you are the tsar of Derby Trail. From now on I'll bow down to your greatness.

This is an incredible copout.

Your statement that I'm wrong and you are right about the use of clenbuterol on a daily basis drips with irony considering your last paragraph.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

This is an incredible copout.

Your statement that I'm wrong and you are right about the use of clenbuterol on a daily basis drips with irony considering your last paragraph.

I'm not the one that said clenbuterol should not be used every day. You obviously don't do it anymore, so it seems you actually agree.

"Investigators became concerned about clenbuterol when they found that some horses were getting it almost continually from their private veterinarians. Clenbuterol is approved only for the short-term treatment of respiratory disease, and is very effective. But when used in large amounts over a lengthy period, it builds muscle and can also cause health problems or death. "

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I'm not the one that said clenbuterol should not be used every day. You obviously don't do it anymore, so it seems you actually agree.

"Investigators became concerned about clenbuterol when they found that some horses were getting it almost continually from their private veterinarians. Clenbuterol is approved only for the short-term treatment of respiratory disease, and is very effective. But when used in large amounts over a lengthy period, it builds muscle and can also cause health problems or death. "

No actually you seemed to infer that I was wrong for using it without knowing for sure if it would be beneficial.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

No actually you seemed to infer that I was wrong for using it without knowing for sure if it would be beneficial.

Personally I wouldn't do that, particularly for three or four months. Your owners told you it was OK I assume. They paid for it, not me. As an owner, I'd be pissed to find out I paid for the every day administration of a drug that does what the report purports long term. I'd be a bad owner though. I would ask too many questions.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

This all started because I mentioned about using clenbuterol every day without knowing for sure it would be beneficial.

That statement above doesn't have much basis in truth, yet you state it, as if it is.

Your constant insult of those that know more than you is beyond tiresome. You should listen to Chuck. Believe me, you'd learn something about horses and drugs.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Riot

That statement above doesn't have much basis in truth, yet you state it, as if it is.

Your constant insult of those that know more than you is beyond tiresome. You should listen to Chuck. Believe me, you'd learn something about horses and drugs.

I will say that you are the only person here that questioned the report. The consensus, even among those skeptical like Steve Crist, is that the study was well done and the report unbiased. I mean, even Chuck said he stopped doing it because it didn't do anything positive.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I will say that you are the only person here that questioned the report. The consensus, even among those skeptical like Steve Crist, is that the study was well done and the report unbiased. I mean, even Chuck said he stopped doing it because it didn't do anything positive.

I did not question the report. Your statement was generalized, and not an accurate reflection of what we know about clenbuterol. That was my point.

You have demonstrated a repeated inability to read sentences, and glean an accurate meaning, without veering off into assumption. For example, your not understanding how your obvious insult to all horse trainers could possibly offend Chuck.

Just. Stop.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Riot

I did not question the report. Your statement was generalized, and not an accurate reflection of what we know about clenbuterol. That was my point.

You have demonstrated a repeated inability to read sentences, and glean an accurate meaning, without veering off into assumption. For example, your not understanding how your obvious insult to all horse trainers could possibly offend Chuck.

Just. Stop.

How can a supposed vet possibly condone giving clenbuterol to a horse every day without even knowing if there was a benefit? And according to the report there isn't, though some negatives were cited. Oh wait, to pad your income, right?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Riot

I did not question the report. Your statement was generalized, and not an accurate reflection of what we know about clenbuterol. That was my point.

You have demonstrated a repeated inability to read sentences, and glean an accurate meaning, without veering off into assumption. For example, your not understanding how your obvious insult to all horse trainers could possibly offend Chuck.

Just. Stop.

I tell you what I know about Clenbuterol, the biggest cheats in the game use it daily and without question it is used to enhance horses ability to run faster. Now they all bleed and they all suffer from hay and dirt in their lungs.