NY Task Force on Racehorse Health & Safety Report, Reccos

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Kasept

So with the benefit of the actual report released and the rational, intelligent approach it took, the above NYT piece is rendered moot and shown up for what it was, more shameless, broadside character assassination intended to further the in-house agenda.

The report sure doesn't paint a pretty picture of what is happening on the backside. Clenbuterol every day?

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

The report sure doesn't paint a pretty picture of what is happening on the backside. Clenbuterol every day?

Not unique to New York. And not being done by every outfit certainly.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Not unique to New York. And not being done by every outfit certainly.

I wasn't trying to imply either, just talking about the sport in general. If this is going on at the biggest and best circuit , I shudder to think about places lower on the ladder.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I wasn't trying to imply either, just talking about the sport in general. If this is going on at the biggest and best circuit , I shudder to think about places lower on the ladder.

You think greater % of players in the NFL are on HGH and synthetic steroids or Div 3 football?

Clenbuterol side effects are wildly overblown. Personally I dont use it except for horses with acute lung issues because I never saw the benefit of giving it everyday. I tried it everyday on 6 horses for about 3-4 months years ago and honestly didnt see any difference at all.

Not to mention it is really expensive, especially if you are putting your whole barn on it everyday.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You think greater % of players in the NFL are on HGH and synthetic steroids or Div 3 football?

Clenbuterol side effects are wildly overblown. Personally I dont use it except for horses with acute lung issues because I never saw the benefit of giving it everyday. I tried it everyday on 6 horses for about 3-4 months years ago and honestly didnt see any difference at all.

Not to mention it is really expensive, especially if you are putting your whole barn on it everyday.

But isn't that a big issue, trainers just milking owners for more dollars. Why would you try something that is expensive for 3-4 months without knowing the effect? Maybe the effects are overblown, but the point remains.

Honest question because I don't know, is there a mark up for trainers on vet bills? When I was an AC guy, in addition to labor, it is part of the business to mark up the price on any parts. That is why I ask.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

But isn't that a big issue, trainers just milking owners for more dollars. Why would you try something that is expensive for 3-4 months without knowing the effect? Maybe the effects are overblown, but the point remains.

Honest question because I don't know, is there a mark up for trainers on vet bills? When I was an AC guy, in addition to labor, it is part of the business to mark up the price on any parts. That is why I ask.

There is zero trainers markup on the vast majority of vet bills. Some big trainers may get a kickback of some sort because of the large volume but for the most part the vets bill the owners directly.

Why would I try something without knowing the effect? Well how are you going to know anything without trying it? There was no reason then to think it wouldnt be beneficial and truthfully there is very little data now to suggest that it is harmful.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

There is zero trainers markup on the vast majority of vet bills. Some big trainers may get a kickback of some sort because of the large volume but for the most part the vets bill the owners directly.

Why would I try something without knowing the effect? Well how are you going to know anything without trying it? There was no reason then to think it wouldnt be beneficial and truthfully there is very little data now to suggest that it is harmful.

When you say there is no markup on the vast majority, does that mean there is some?

It isn't like you are the first to try? Is there no sharing of info in this sport for the welfare of the horse? Would you have tried if you had to pay for it? Did the owner agree to this beforehand? I'm just trying to figure out how all this works.

Does very little data to suggest it is harmful mean there is some? I just don't get this liberal attitude about drug use on animals. It just seems like the idea is lets just stick them and see where it leads. I'm certainly not talking about you specifically, but the entire industry.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

But isn't that a big issue, trainers just milking owners for more dollars. Why would you try something that is expensive for 3-4 months without knowing the effect? Maybe the effects are overblown, but the point remains.

Some trainers are quite susceptible to gossip and old wives tales, and will try anything "believing" it works, and many vets are willing to sell them anything, too. You should see what some people do to horses in all sports to win. It's shocking.

It's like lasix, steroids, artificial surfaces - few base decisions solely upon emperical evidence. Emotion and 'belief" and "I know what I know" drives most of it.

[outofthebox]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

The report sure doesn't paint a pretty picture of what is happening on the backside. Clenbuterol every day?

And certainly the outfits that give it daily are actually twice a day....