Joel Rosario shifting his tack to NY

Not a move I would advise. He's 6th in the nation in earnings. That with having a very quiet last 30 days because of chasing the Triple Crown, sadly having to attend to his brother and suspensions.

Not sure what the desired goal would be. Top 5 in the nation in total earnings? Already there. Live Triple Crown mounts? Already there. Breeders' Cup Prospects? Already there. Has won two.

Here's the thing. He's dominant in California. Something that is VERY VERY hard to accomplish. For some reason riders from back east with equal talent have tried it out here and failed. Never understood why but many have crawled home with their tail between their legs.

Also riding here is about 50,000 times easier logistically than bouncing around back east. Saratoga? Of course. What about the winter? Aqueduct ( inner ) don't think so for a kid from the Dominican. Keeneland? Sure. Will have build relationships. Gulfstream? Sure. Same story there.

California on the other hand is Valhalla for a guy that has his business. Fantastic weather year round. Live in the same house all but 7 weeks when somehow he has to endure a condo on a San Diego beach.

His morning work here is a total piece of cake. Breeze your stakes horses. Help out at Sadler's and a couple of marquee barns and kick around the backside politicing and visiting. Take some mornings off ( not an option at Belmont ) and ride nothing but 6/5 shots.

He and Bejarano are friends. More importantly their agents work together to freeze out other riders and keep the business in the top two family. VERY IMPORTANT! Also not possible back east.

I understand when you're young and super talented new adventures seem exciting. I say try river rafting, bungee jumping or of course musicals.

There's a certain little girl with Ruby slippers that said it best. And she was from Kansas for crying out loud. Not the paradise that So. Cal is.

Don't do it Joel.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

Here's the thing. He's dominant in California. Something that is VERY VERY hard to accomplish. For some reason riders from back east with equal talent have tried it out here and failed. Never understood why but many have crawled home with their tail between their legs.

What are some examples of east coast guys who have gone west only to crawl home with their tails between their legs?

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

What are some examples of east coast guys who have gone west only to crawl home with their tails between their legs?

Jorge Chavez and Channing Hill are the only NY "regulars" to even try to make it out there in the last 5 years. What they had in common is that at that stage of their respective careers neither could really ride at all.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Jorge Chavez and Channing Hill are the only NY "regulars" to even try to make it out there in the last 5 years. What they had in common is that at that stage of their respective careers neither could really ride at all.

It's almost all fashion with jockeys.

You can pull a guy like Pablo Morales out of the jockey room here at PID and if you put him on the mounts of mostly all of the big-name jockeys, you'd see no difference in long-term production.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Jorge Chavez and Channing Hill are the only NY "regulars" to even try to make it out there in the last 5 years. What they had in common is that at that stage of their respective careers neither could really ride at all.

Channing Hill is BEYOND putrid. Never really followed NY when he was there, but he has been putrid here this meet. This was the first time I had a chance to watch him ride and I'm shocked he could even win races in NY.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

What are some examples of east coast guys who have gone west only to crawl home with their tails between their legs?

Kerwin John couldn't win at 3% year after year when he was riding at Mountaineer and Thistle -- and he went out and contended for a riding title at Hollywood Park one meet and was riding in the Breeders Cup.

Originally Posted by Dahoss

What are some examples of east coast guys who have gone west only to crawl home with their tails between their legs?

Angel Cordero, Jorge Velazquez, Julien Leparoux, Jose Santos come to mind off the top of my head.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

Angel Cordero, Jorge Velazquez, Julien Leparoux, Jose Santos come to mind off the top of my head.

Leparoux was out there for like a week and the rest happened decades ago, right?

Straight and strong!

One of the worst career moves was Jon Court going west at an advanced age when he had the ky-in trash circuit on lock. He was super Goncalves.

[10 pnt move up]

I thought he came during the end of either SA or HP and then road Del Mar....my memory is going though.

For some reason I thought Bailey had tried a stint out there but that was before my time really.

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Leparoux was out there for like a week and the rest happened decades ago, right?

Straight and strong!

Leparoux give it several months a few years back. Didn't stick. He was here a short time ago, fall meet, for a couple weeks to soak in the rays and celebrate with his soon to become new inlaws.

[Calzone Lord]

Speaking of douchey dressed jockey agents...




Any man who portrays himself to be a heterosexual, and wears pink collard shirts, should obviously be euthanized for the betterment of society.







Lime Green isn't that much better, either.

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Speaking of douchey dressed jockey agents...




Any man who portrays himself to be a heterosexual, and wears pink collard shirts, should obviously be euthanized for the betterment of society.







Lime Green isn't that much better, either.

I'm pretty sure collard is part of the name of a vegtable. Funny I'd know that since clearly I haven't been partaking in many recently.

Otherwise, great post. Adds tons to the Rosario West/East coast debate.

Thanks for listening.

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Speaking of douchey dressed jockey agents...




Any man who portrays himself to be a heterosexual, and wears pink collard shirts, should obviously be euthanized for the betterment of society.







Lime Green isn't that much better, either.

And furthermore. I'd have worn a grass skirt and Dickinson high heels if necessary to have the opportunity to take a picture with that particular young lady.

Maybe just a bit jealous? Eh?

[pointman]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

Show me the quote. Us myopic whatever's sometimes lose track since we're always thinking of ourseleves.

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

Not a move I would advise. He's 6th in the nation in earnings. That with having a very quiet last 30 days because of chasing the Triple Crown, sadly having to attend to his brother and suspensions.

Not sure what the desired goal would be. Top 5 in the nation in total earnings? Already there. Live Triple Crown mounts? Already there. Breeders' Cup Prospects? Already there. Has won two.

Here's the thing. He's dominant in California. Something that is VERY VERY hard to accomplish. For some reason riders from back east with equal talent have tried it out here and failed. Never understood why but many have crawled home with their tail between their legs.

Also riding here is about 50,000 times easier logistically than bouncing around back east. Saratoga? Of course. What about the winter? Aqueduct ( inner ) don't think so for a kid from the Dominican. Keeneland? Sure. Will have build relationships. Gulfstream? Sure. Same story there.

California on the other hand is Valhalla for a guy that has his business. Fantastic weather year round. Live in the same house all but 7 weeks when somehow he has to endure a condo on a San Diego beach.

His morning work here is a total piece of cake. Breeze your stakes horses. Help out at Sadler's and a couple of marquee barns and kick around the backside politicing and visiting. Take some mornings off ( not an option at Belmont ) and ride nothing but 6/5 shots.

He and Bejarano are friends. More importantly their agents work together to freeze out other riders and keep the business in the top two family. VERY IMPORTANT! Also not possible back east.

I understand when you're young and super talented new adventures seem exciting. I say try river rafting, bungee jumping or of course musicals.

There's a certain little girl with Ruby slippers that said it best. And she was from Kansas for crying out loud. Not the paradise that So. Cal is.

Don't do it Joel.

Seems pretty clear to me.

[Calzone Lord]

Kerwin John rode regularly at Mountaineer Park in 2002 and 2003 and was a 3% jockey there. You could have taken a poll of trainers asking to rate the top 20 jockeys at MNR and no one would have named Kerwin.

The very next year - Kerwin John finished 8th in the standings at Del Mar and had more wins and a higher win percentage than a very accomplished jockey like Mike Smith (who also moved East to West) Kerwin was 6th in the standings at Hollywood Park.

Kerwin went from a 3% win percentage and having no luck finding a decent mount anywhere in West Virginia in 2003 - to having three mounts on the Breeders Cup card in 2004.

One of them, Island Fashion, was like 5/1 or so in the $2 million BC Distaff off her win in the Lady's Secret last out. He was a nobuddy in West Virginia and Ohio -- and in a snap of a finger -- he's winning Grade 1 races and live on the Breeders Cup card.

It's all about opportunity and fashion. When these guys without much ability finally fall out of favor - they tank. Just as a guy without an ounce of ability will put up big surprisingly strong numbers if they stumble into opportunity.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Leparoux was out there for like a week and the rest happened decades ago, right?

Straight and strong!

I guess he forgot that in recent history that Bejarano couldn't get mounts in New York and went west where he is the top rider in that killer California colony.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

Not a move I would advise. He's 6th in the nation in earnings. That with having a very quiet last 30 days because of chasing the Triple Crown, sadly having to attend to his brother and suspensions.

Not sure what the desired goal would be. Top 5 in the nation in total earnings? Already there. Live Triple Crown mounts? Already there. Breeders' Cup Prospects? Already there. Has won two.

Here's the thing. He's dominant in California. Something that is VERY VERY hard to accomplish. For some reason riders from back east with equal talent have tried it out here and failed. Never understood why but many have crawled home with their tail between their legs.

Also riding here is about 50,000 times easier logistically than bouncing around back east. Saratoga? Of course. What about the winter? Aqueduct ( inner ) don't think so for a kid from the Dominican. Keeneland? Sure. Will have build relationships. Gulfstream? Sure. Same story there.

California on the other hand is Valhalla for a guy that has his business. Fantastic weather year round. Live in the same house all but 7 weeks when somehow he has to endure a condo on a San Diego beach.

His morning work here is a total piece of cake. Breeze your stakes horses. Help out at Sadler's and a couple of marquee barns and kick around the backside politicing and visiting. Take some mornings off ( not an option at Belmont ) and ride nothing but 6/5 shots.

He and Bejarano are friends. More importantly their agents work together to freeze out other riders and keep the business in the top two family. VERY IMPORTANT! Also not possible back east.

I understand when you're young and super talented new adventures seem exciting. I say try river rafting, bungee jumping or of course musicals.

There's a certain little girl with Ruby slippers that said it best. And she was from Kansas for crying out loud. Not the paradise that So. Cal is.

Don't do it Joel.

I really don't understand your plea/post. Wouldn't a good goal be, trying to be the best of your profession? OK, he has accomplished a lot in California and no one is taking anything away from him. Although dominant might be a bit over the top, especially when the feeling seems to be (or at least the one I get) is that Raffie is the go to money guy out there. But I agree he has done very well for himself out there. But possibly it's to the point where he feels like he's accomplished all he's going to accomplish out there and he's starting to spin his wheels. If he wants to be the best and get nationally recoginized then he's going to the right place.

I really don't understand what jocks going from east to west has to do with the situation. What's the worst thing that could happen? If he bombs in NY, he'll just go back west and his buisness will eventually go back to normal. It's not like it's that deep of a colony out there Vic.

Now I have no idea if of Rosario's personal life, but I wish I could spend the summer in Saratoga. As far as NY goes, Belmont and Aqueduct are what 10 miles from each other. Besides what about the times that he will be able to ride in muliple races at different tracks on the same day. Can't do that from California. Ok winters on the inner can be brutal, but Ramon deals with it. If Joel rides to his ability he should have no problem going to Florida and getting mounts for the winter if he doesn't want to brave the cold. So obviously I'm not buying the logistics deal either.

Not sure what you are saying about his mornings, but I almost feel like you are trying to knock a hole in his work ethic. As far as the agents colluding to freeze out other jocks, isn't that another knock? If he's so dominant, why do the agents need to do that. Shouldn't all the trainers be knocking down his door?

I just feel like for a guy who used to be his agent and friend who raved about his ability all the time, this is far from the strong vote of confidence that I would expect from you. Not even a good luck Joel, I just find the whole commentary very strange and disappointing. Makes me think that this is just a case of sour grapes.

[clambeau]

We don't have to understand Vic...we just have to hear him

[pointman]