Less choice coming for New York City

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by joeydb

OK - how many conservatives are telling you how much soda you are not allowed to have?

Ironically, if you're on welfare, the conservatives are paying for the soda and everything else...

Technically, the proposed law doesn't limit how much soda an individual can drink; it limits the sizes certain companies can sell. There's nothing to stop an individual from buying two 16-oz sodas if that's what he wants to do. Or five, or ten, or twenty.

So the restriction is on companies, not actual individuals. Corporations spend a lot of money researching how to get people to consume more; the massive increase in portion size is evidence of how successful they are. I imagine Bloomberg is figuring the psychology behind how we purchase works both ways.

I'm old enough I can remember when McDonalds didn't serve their fries in boxes.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Technically, the proposed law doesn't limit how much soda an individual can drink; it limits the sizes certain companies can sell. There's nothing to stop an individual from buying two 16-oz sodas if that's what he wants to do. Or five, or ten, or twenty.

So the restriction is on companies, not actual individuals. Corporations spend a lot of money researching how to get people to consume more; the massive increase in portion size is evidence of how successful they are. I imagine Bloomberg is figuring the psychology behind how we purchase works both ways.

I'm old enough I can remember when McDonalds didn't serve their fries in boxes.

OK - good point - but equally technical is the fact that the law seeks to make it less convenient to consume the same amount.

Maybe next Bloomberg should outlaw the 16 oz pint of beer and the 12 oz bottle, preferring instead that going to the bar for a beer with the guys means ordering 12 one ounce shot glasses of beer...

[Riot]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Maybe next Bloomberg should outlaw the 16 oz pint of beer and the 12 oz bottle, preferring instead that going to the bar for a beer with the guys means ordering 12 one ounce shot glasses of beer...

The size of beer bottles, the volume of alcohol that can be served in "one serving" in bars, etc. is very heavily controlled in some jurisdictions.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Riot

The size of beer bottles, the volume of alcohol that can be served in "one serving" in bars, etc. is very heavily controlled in some jurisdictions.

Yes, that's a state or local level ordinance thing. But it hasn't reached the nuisance level did. I said the "shot glass" rule because Bloomberg's way of thinking can be applied anywhere, arbitrarily, and result in a nuisance for the customer.

Government ought not be promoting nuisance laws. He should have better things to do, like making sure New York City operates on a surplus and not a debt. If he did that already, great. I confess that I don't know the exact state of NYC's budget this year.

[Danzig]

i'd rather they just had companies put the actual dietary info of the size you're buying on the label.
who here knows that 20oz soda bottles are considered 2 1/2 servings in a container?
that cinnamon roll in the vending machine? two servings. so is the microwave bowl of chunky soup-yeah, cause i share that big ol' bowl of soup with someone...it's too much to eat by myself.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i'd rather they just had companies put the actual dietary info of the size you're buying on the label.
who here knows that 20oz soda bottles are considered 2 1/2 servings in a container?
that cinnamon roll in the vending machine? two servings. so is the microwave bowl of chunky soup-yeah, cause i share that big ol' bowl of soup with someone...it's too much to eat by myself.

And corporations fought very hard in the 1960s against having to do that.

Here in NYC, places like Starbucks and movie theaters are required to list the calories on what they sell. I know it's really affected what I buy. Eight hundred calories for a lousy dish of movie nachos? Fuggedaboutit.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

And corporations fought very hard in the 1960s against having to do that.

Here in NYC, places like Starbucks and movie theaters are required to list the calories on what they sell. I know it's really affected what I buy. Eight hundred calories for a lousy dish of movie nachos? Fuggedaboutit.

yeah, they still fight it because they try to get away with using small serving sizes to fool people. it's appalling when you read some labels and realize what you're eating.
tony and i were on vacation, and spent a few days at disney world (i do NOT recommend anyone go there, it is a horrible, horrible place)...we each got a pretzel and cheese dip as a snack. i took a bite, and all i could taste was salt. looked at the cheese cup label-that cheese had 20% of your sodium intake for the day. ugh!


and liquor doesn't have labels-for now.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Danzig

yeah, they still fight it because they try to get away with using small serving sizes to fool people. it's appalling when you read some labels and realize what you're eating.
tony and i were on vacation, and spent a few days at disney world (i do NOT recommend anyone go there, it is a horrible, horrible place)...we each got a pretzel and cheese dip as a snack. i took a bite, and all i could taste was salt. looked at the cheese cup label-that cheese had 20% of your sodium intake for the day. ugh!


and liquor doesn't have labels-for now.

In the '60s they were against even listing ingredients.

I'm with you about Disney. Everything is very clean, very well designed and very fake.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

And corporations fought very hard in the 1960s against having to do that.

Here in NYC, places like Starbucks and movie theaters are required to list the calories on what they sell. I know it's really affected what I buy. Eight hundred calories for a lousy dish of movie nachos? Fuggedaboutit.

Somehow not included in this, they outstrip soda calories by a big margin with their drinks.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

Somehow not included in this, they outstrip soda calories by a big margin with their drinks.

I heard initially that it was to also apply to the 20 oz "Venti" coffee size @ Starbucks. But then the stories coming out just highlighted soda.

The thing is - I for instance don't put sugar in my coffee at all - but why would Starbucks continue to carry 20 oz cups at all if the majority of the time the law would not allow them to be used because of the sugar content?

So I would be "participating" in the ban as well, even though 20 oz of black coffee still has zero calories.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by joeydb

I heard initially that it was to also apply to the 20 oz "Venti" coffee size @ Starbucks. But then the stories coming out just highlighted soda.

The thing is - I for instance don't put sugar in my coffee at all - but why would Starbucks continue to carry 20 oz cups at all if the majority of the time the law would not allow them to be used because of the sugar content?

So I would be "participating" in the ban as well, even though 20 oz of black coffee still has zero calories.

http://www.starbucks.com/menu/drinks...hocolate-mocha
500 calories per 16oz. I believe I will have a Coke.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i'd rather they just had companies put the actual dietary info of the size you're buying on the label.
who here knows that 20oz soda bottles are considered 2 1/2 servings in a container?
that cinnamon roll in the vending machine? two servings. so is the microwave bowl of chunky soup-yeah, cause i share that big ol' bowl of soup with someone...it's too much to eat by myself.

Yeah, but New York says that you can't make that decision. They don't trust you to make that decision. You're thinking in terms of having complete information to make the decision with, which is certainly a reasonable way to look at it.

They've already decided that "they know what's best for you."

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Yeah, but New York says that you can't make that decision. They don't trust you to make that decision. You're thinking in terms of having complete information to make the decision with, which is certainly a reasonable way to look at it.

They've already decided that "they know what's best for you."

No, Bloomberg is proposing restricting the size of soda beverage a company may sell. There is no restriction on how much soda a person may drink, only that they may have to make the decision to go back for seconds, thirds, fourths.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

No, Bloomberg is proposing restricting the size of soda beverage a company may sell. There is no restriction on how much soda a person may drink, only that they may have to make the decision to go back for seconds, thirds, fourths.

Yeah - they are restricting the size of the soda to be sold, so that you as a consumer do not have the option of selecting a larger size.

It does matter for the "on the go purchase". If you wanted a nice big soda for a long car ride, to fit in one cupholder, to have one large amount of ice to keep it cold, and even carry it to your car with one hand, you don't have that option.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Yeah, but New York says that you can't make that decision. They don't trust you to make that decision. You're thinking in terms of having complete information to make the decision with, which is certainly a reasonable way to look at it.

No they don't. That information is already there on the freaking bottles, Joey. Federal edict: basic nutritional information has to be available. Oh, and in restaurants, too. The horrible, nasty federales. Taking your freedomz. While you eagerly take away other people's. Heh.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Riot

No they don't. That information is already there on the freaking bottles, Joey. Federal edict: basic nutritional information has to be available. Oh, and in restaurants, too. The horrible, nasty federales. Taking your freedomz. While you eagerly take away other people's. Heh.

I know it's there. I was responding to Danzig who thought that even more info could be posted there.