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  #1  
Old 04-27-2012, 07:08 AM
Danzig Danzig is offline
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the first winner, aristides, was entered to be a rabbit for his stablemate chesapeake. believe chesapeake was the favorite coming in. aristides got left alone on the lead and was still in front at the top of the stretch. supposedly his jock was looking around to see where ches. was, and the owner was yelling just keep going or something to that effect.

and i think they used to have the derby on a wednesday.


the founder of churchill was meriwether clark jr, he was Clark's grandson (of the lewis and clark expedition). that ought to answer anyone's potential question of who is the clark handicap named for?
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:42 AM
RockHardTen1985 RockHardTen1985 is offline
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Is the founder related to PBF?
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Old 04-27-2012, 08:13 AM
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Man O' War did not run in the Derby because his owner felt it was a bush league track. In fact Kentucky's favorite son never ran in the state.
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Old 04-27-2012, 08:22 AM
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The whole Apollo thing would be kind of a red flag if it weren't for the fact that pretty much every Derby streak has been broken in recent years.
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Old 04-27-2012, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTM Al View Post
Man O' War did not run in the Derby because his owner felt it was a bush league track. In fact Kentucky's favorite son never ran in the state.
MoW's owner didn't believe in bringing a horse back off of the layoff by what he called "racing in the West"

He spoke of Churchill Downs like it was Santa Anita.
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Old 04-27-2012, 09:46 AM
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Aside from the Sir Barton race, Man o' War only stepped foot outside of the state of New York to race twice, and both times were in Maryland.
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Old 04-27-2012, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by slotdirt View Post
Aside from the Sir Barton race, Man o' War only stepped foot outside of the state of New York to race twice, and both times were in Maryland.
Man O' War left New York three times -- twice to run in Maryland and once to run in Canada in a match race against Sir Barton (who was rumored to be off form and injured)

Other than the Preakness -- which Man O' War won by 1.5 lengths -- he faced very minimal competition.

2nd start at age 3: Two rivals
3rd start at age 3: match race
4th start at age 3: match race
5th start at age 3: match race
6th start at age 3: Two rivals
7th start at age 3: Two rivals
8th start at age 3: match race
9th start at age 3: match race
10th start at age 3: 3 rivals
11th start at age 3: Match race

He faced just one older horse his entire career -- Sir Barton -- who was widely rumored to be injured and off form.

Racing was in desperately bad shape at the time because of anti-gambling laws ...and Man O' War fiested on one of the smallest foal crops in racing history.

He did have great early speed -- and that's a tremendous asset when you're racing in glorified walkovers or 3 horse fields.
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Old 04-27-2012, 10:10 AM
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The last 10 years have turned just about everything upside down, with the 5 weeks rest, 2 prep schedule, geldings, et al, but for what it's worth, here are two long standing trends still standing that I tried to take apart.

The "no races at 2".
I think the "no race at 2" thing is overstated, but I do agree u need some foundation and experience.
So who are the ones who tried it in our time:

Summer Bird- won Belmont/Travers
Dunkirk- multi million dollar yearling, got hurt
Greely Galaxy 11th
Curlin became 2 time HOY
Atswhatimtalkinbout 4th
Wheelaway 5th
Indian Charlie, never raced again
Pulpit 4th, hurt, retired
Bodemeister ??

Say what you want, but there were some major talents here and the closest to winning was Curlin, who failed in the Derby but was good enough to win the Preakness and be HOY.

Now look at those undefeated going in:
Undefeated going in:
Big Brown 3-0 win
Curlin 3-0 3rd
Barbaro 5-0 win
Showing Up 3-0 6th
Smarty Jones 6-0 win
Trippi 4-0 (sprinter)
Indian Charlie 4-0 3rd

Gemolotist 5-0 ????

There were a handful of others going back to Mr. Frisky, but as a group, these have some pretty impressive results.
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Old 04-28-2012, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calzone Lord View Post
Man O' War left New York three times -- twice to run in Maryland and once to run in Canada in a match race against Sir Barton (who was rumored to be off form and injured)

Other than the Preakness -- which Man O' War won by 1.5 lengths -- he faced very minimal competition.

2nd start at age 3: Two rivals
3rd start at age 3: match race
4th start at age 3: match race
5th start at age 3: match race
6th start at age 3: Two rivals
7th start at age 3: Two rivals
8th start at age 3: match race
9th start at age 3: match race
10th start at age 3: 3 rivals
11th start at age 3: Match race

He faced just one older horse his entire career -- Sir Barton -- who was widely rumored to be injured and off form.

Racing was in desperately bad shape at the time because of anti-gambling laws ...and Man O' War fiested on one of the smallest foal crops in racing history.

He did have great early speed -- and that's a tremendous asset when you're racing in glorified walkovers or 3 horse fields.
I heard Sir Barton was rumored to be injured and off form in that race. Can you confirm?
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  #10  
Old 04-28-2012, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calzone Lord View Post
MoW's owner didn't believe in bringing a horse back off of the layoff by what he called "racing in the West"

He spoke of Churchill Downs like it was Santa Anita.
Which was considered a bush league track as well. If it wasn't the east coast, it was a bunch of cowboys.
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Old 04-28-2012, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTM Al View Post
Which was considered a bush league track as well. If it wasn't the east coast, it was a bunch of cowboys.
That's nonsense.

Here's a Daily Racing Form column from the 1920's.





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  #12  
Old 04-29-2012, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calzone Lord View Post
That's nonsense.

Here's a Daily Racing Form column from the 1920's.
I'm not saying it was true, but that it was a strong east coast point of view.
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Old 04-27-2012, 08:59 AM
Danzig Danzig is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 View Post
Is the founder related to PBF?
who?
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