Ky Derby Factoids.

[Port Conway Lane]

Originally Posted by citycat

What are some of your favorite facts/streaks about the Kentucky Derby? Will u throw out Bodemeister just on the fact that only one horse has ever won the derby that didnt make a start at two?

Scratch thru any horses with a female jock?

Just wondering what are some of everyones favorites.

No horse making his route debut has ever won the derby.

No horse running backwards has never won the derby and the list goes on and on.

There is a first for everything.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Port Conway Lane

No horse making his route debut has ever won the derby.

I wonder when the last horse making his route debut in the derby actually happened.

[Port Conway Lane]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

I wonder when the last horse making his route debut in the derby actually happened.

Probably never. Sir Barton broke his maiden in the derby no ? I can't recall any.

[Danzig]

the first winner, aristides, was entered to be a rabbit for his stablemate chesapeake. believe chesapeake was the favorite coming in. aristides got left alone on the lead and was still in front at the top of the stretch. supposedly his jock was looking around to see where ches. was, and the owner was yelling just keep going or something to that effect.

and i think they used to have the derby on a wednesday.


the founder of churchill was meriwether clark jr, he was Clark's grandson (of the lewis and clark expedition). that ought to answer anyone's potential question of who is the clark handicap named for?

[RockHardTen1985]

Is the founder related to PBF?

[OTM Al]

Man O' War did not run in the Derby because his owner felt it was a bush league track. In fact Kentucky's favorite son never ran in the state.

[slotdirt]

The whole Apollo thing would be kind of a red flag if it weren't for the fact that pretty much every Derby streak has been broken in recent years.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

Man O' War did not run in the Derby because his owner felt it was a bush league track. In fact Kentucky's favorite son never ran in the state.

MoW's owner didn't believe in bringing a horse back off of the layoff by what he called "racing in the West"

He spoke of Churchill Downs like it was Santa Anita.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Is the founder related to PBF?

who?

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Port Conway Lane

No horse making his route debut has ever won the derby.

Many horses have won the Kentucky Derby without ever having run beyond 6 furlongs prior.

The filly Regret and the maiden Sir Barton among them.

[Port Conway Lane]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Many horses have won the Kentucky Derby without ever having run beyond 6 furlongs prior.

The filly Regret and the maiden Sir Barton among them.

Of course that was my impromptu response given this year's "oddity" as it were. I honestly don't recall a starter fitting the bill in the last 30 years.

As unlikely as it seems I'm not so inclined to completely dismiss Trinniberg. If I told you now the half mile was run in 48 flat with him on the lead what would be his chances?

[slotdirt]

Before 2011, anybody want to hazard a guess at the last Derby with an opening half 48 seconds or slower? I think the answer to that question should pretty much rule out the chances that Trinniberg will be going 48 flat on the lead.

[Port Conway Lane]

Of course it would. The question is what if.

[Port Conway Lane]

It would be a monumental misjudgement of pace on the part of 3 jockeys (maybe more).

[slotdirt]

Well, we're talking about something that has happened twice since 1970 (because I got tired of looking at charts though now that I look at it, it also happened in 1969). Based on the pace of the various preps and the chances of a filled starting gate, I'd say the chances of Trinniberg waltzing along going 48 and change are somewhere between slim and none. And even if he did, he's a freaking son of Teuflesberg (wilted after a 46.1 half in 2007) whose offspring have an average winning distance of 5.78f (!!!). The other sires with AWD's under 7f in the field are Dixie Union (Union Rags), Even the Score (Dullahan), Indian Charlie (Liaison), Rousing Sermon (Lucky Pulpit), and Proud Citizen (Went the Day Well and Mark Valeski).

[Port Conway Lane]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Well, we're talking about something that has happened twice since 1970 (because I got tired of looking at charts though now that I look at it, it also happened in 1969). Based on the pace of the various preps and the chances of a filled starting gate, I'd say the chances of Trinniberg waltzing along going 48 and change are somewhere between slim and none. And even if he did, he's a freaking son of Teuflesberg (wilted after a 46.1 half in 2007) whose offspring have an average winning distance of 5.78f (!!!). The other sires with AWD's under 7f in the field are Dixie Union (Union Rags), Even the Score (Dullahan), Indian Charlie (Liaison), Rousing Sermon (Lucky Pulpit), and Proud Citizen (Went the Day Well and Mark Valeski).

I understand and that's why I asked the question. It seems inconceivable and this thread has everything to do with taking a microscopic look at what has happened in the last 140 or so runnings of a race run once a year and why based on the history of this one race the chances of this year's horses hinge on that history.

In 1985 Chiefs Crown had the look of a champion and Spend A Buck had romped through New Jersey unchallenged early on in his races. However the assumption was made that in the Derby he would face a stiffer pace from Eternal Prince and the race was set up for CC to pounce at will. After the race the question most were asking is what happened to Eternal Prince.

Anyway enough about The pace. I'm sure there are other favorite "factoids".

BTW what were the results of the two 48 flat races you found ?

[Thunder Gulch]

If the half is 48, Hansen and Bodemeister will still drown Trinniberg at the quarter pole.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Port Conway Lane

If I told you now the half mile was run in 48 flat with him on the lead what would be his chances?

0.00% percent.

He's not that type of horse. Even a horse like Big Drama was far better suited to being a route speed than he is.

[Port Conway Lane]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

0.00% percent.

He's not that type of horse. Even a horse like Big Drama was far better suited to being a route speed than he is.

Fair enough. I should send you my two bucks.