Extending the Payroll Tax Cut

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

(gotta remember to sign in under my own name)



The Republicans are pretty much wholly-owned corporate whores. There are plenty of Dems there, too.

The last 30 years has seen a huge increase in the dissembling of regulations and laws keeping money out of politics. Citizens United was the final straw.

And no, I didn't say I think money in politics started 70 years ago. Re-read it. You do like to bring up silly straw men, misstate what people have said, and change the conversation, don't you?

You specifically used 70 years. So are you implying that the money in politics 71+ years ago wasnt influential?

I didnt change anything, just asked a completely valid question. When someone uses a starting point for "nasty influence"(like 70 years) are we to assume that this was the starting point? Was money in politics not as influential beyond 70 years ago?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You specifically used 70 years. So are you implying that the money in politics 71+ years ago wasnt influential?

LOL. Not at all. 70 years simply refers to modern post-depression financial politics in this country.

I didnt change anything, just asked a completely valid question. When someone uses a starting point for "nasty influence"(like 70 years) are we to assume that this was the starting point? Was money in politics not as influential beyond 70 years ago?

Good lord. I referred to no "starting point". Here's what I said - that you think "70 years" is the most important thing to take out of what I said - let alone falsely changing it to different meanings - is simply amazing

Riot said:
"Oh - and those people are no longer in the parks, they are in places like ... the halls of Congress today. Getting 400,000 people to withdraw money from big banks with bad practices in favor of credit unions last month. Getting the conversation changed from the false Republican "fix the deficit" nonsense, to the reality of income inequality and the nasty influence, over the past 70 years, of money in our politics."

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

LOL. Not at all. 70 years simply refers to modern post-depression financial politics in this country.



Good lord. I referred to no "starting point". Here's what I said - that you think "70 years" is the most important thing to take out of what I said - let alone falsely changing it to different meanings - is simply amazing

Riot said:
"Oh - and those people are no longer in the parks, they are in places like ... the halls of Congress today. Getting 400,000 people to withdraw money from big banks with bad practices in favor of credit unions last month. Getting the conversation changed from the false Republican "fix the deficit" nonsense, to the reality of income inequality and the nasty influence, over the past 70 years, of money in our politics."

No the important point is that you cant get money out of politics or really anything for that matter. You can pass laws till you are blue in the face but money is going to always be a major factor unless you live in fantasyland. There is no greater place than horse racing to see that people will do things for money regardless of how much they already have or how little they need more. Multipy that by 1000 and you have modern politics.

[somerfrost]

There is a storm coming and if folks in power don't wake up, they will reap the wild wind. Quote all the clever statistics you want, rejoice in the "brilliance" of the right's soundbites, in the end the scales will be balanced either by fairness and a sense of brotherhood or by blood. Phil Ochs wrote this years ago, dated but still a look into the near future if things don't change!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Rni9Cwoe6g

[Honu]

I hope for fu cks sake I never become rich because no matter how much I paid or gave away it would never be enough to some.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Phil Ochs wrote this years ago, dated but still a look into the near future if things don't change!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Rni9Cwoe6g

Wow, that's a blast from the past - thanks!

If you go on YouTube and search on "Occupy songs", lots of newly written good "folk" songs come up.

Including the Occupy song Makena sang to President Obama and other leaders at the APEC dinner in Hawaii a few weeks back:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VegV-8vu7go

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

No the important point is that you cant get money out of politics or really anything for that matter.

That certainly could prove true.

But that assumption doesn't explain why those that are trying to get money out of politics are getting so thoroughly attacked and denigrated, not only by the established monied interests in politics (that's logical to defend their status quo), but by their fellow citizens.

Strange.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

That certainly could prove true.

But that assumption doesn't explain why those that are trying to get money out of politics are getting so thoroughly attacked and denigrated, not only by the established monied interests in politics (that's logical to defend their status quo), but by their fellow citizens.

Strange.

Perhaps because the methods are getting tiresome. There is nothing worse than the guy at the game trying to get on tv with some clever sign or acting like a fool. That is basically what many people think of OWS. He might be an honor student that helps old ladies cross the street but his act is a turnoff. What they "stand for" (though it is still debatable that there are arent a lot of things that they support that aren't palatable in mainstream America) becomes secondary when America grows weary of them. In case you didnt notice our society has a short attention span and OWS is getting to be the same old story. You can blame the media all you want but to most there is nothing really tangible changing because of OWS.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Perhaps because the methods are getting tiresome. There is nothing worse than the guy at the game trying to get on tv with some clever sign or acting like a fool. That is basically what many people think of OWS.

Well, too bad most people pay so little attention, and think that's all Occupy is about. Low information voters and all that, I guess. But you seem to know all about it.

Getting 400,000 people to change their banks within a month was a pretty successful "movement" action.

He might be an honor student that helps old ladies cross the street but his act is a turnoff. What they "stand for" (though it is still debatable that there are arent a lot of things that they support that aren't palatable in mainstream America) becomes secondary when America grows weary of them. In case you didnt notice our society has a short attention span and OWS is getting to be the same old story. You can blame the media all you want but to most there is nothing really tangible changing because of OWS

No, what "they stand for" isn't debatable . Why don't you list the specific Occupy demands that you say are not palatable in mainstream America? Because the mainstream embracing seems to be increasing constantly - look at what Cleveland just did. What did the President discuss today? What happened in the halls of Congress today?

But basically, you are saying that the very people that could benefit from OWS actions are attacking them because ... they have low attention spans and don't like Occupy methods?

That's kind of insulting, don't you think?

Yes, peaceful legal public protest and wanting politicians to change laws to get money out of politics is so radical and offensive.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Well, too bad most people pay so little attention, and think that's all Occupy is about. Low information voters and all that, I guess. But you seem to know all about it.

Getting 400,000 people to change their banks within a month was a pretty successful "movement" action.



No, what "they stand for" isn't debatable . Why don't you list the specific Occupy demands that you say are not palatable in mainstream America? Because the mainstream embracing seems to be increasing constantly - look at what Cleveland just did. What did the President discuss today? What happened in the halls of Congress today?

But basically, you are saying that the very people that could benefit from OWS actions are attacking them because ... they have low attention spans and don't like Occupy methods?

That's kind of insulting, don't you think?

Yes, peaceful legal public protest and wanting politicians to change laws to get money out of politics is so radical and offensive.

You wanted an explanation and I gave one. Few people in this country even know who their congressman/woman is so acting like the common man has his finger on the pulse of daily political posturing is silly. If that is insulting...well turn on tv and see what Americans watch. I dont think that people are attacking OWS they are just kind of tired of it. Unlike you who sees all these great things happening, most people could care less what a bunch of stiffs in Cleveland think, what the president is speaking about now or banks losing customers. Now if Kim Kardashian joined the protests then it is a whole new ball game.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

But that assumption doesn't explain why those that are trying to get money out of politics are getting so thoroughly attacked and denigrated, not only by the established monied interests in politics (that's logical to defend their status quo), but by their fellow citizens.

Strange.

Why don't you look back over the last two years and try and recall why you chided me for criticizing virtually EVERY bailout/loan/stimulus put forth.

You have been the head cheerleader for any government spending no matter what it was for and now you want to get money out of politics? How Sybil of you!

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Why don't you look back over the last two years and try and recall why you chided me for criticizing virtually EVERY bailout/loan/stimulus put forth.

You have been the head cheerleader for any government spending no matter what it was for and now you want to get money out of politics? How Sybil of you!

Please explain how the Koch brothers purchasing Herman Cain and trying to make him President is the same as Cash for Clunkers.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Please explain how the Koch brothers purchasing Herman Cain and trying to make him President is the same as Cash for Clunkers.

It's not but it's pretty close to (insert name) union supporting Obama and then being thrown billions back under the guise of creating jobs.