7/16 (CNL): VA Derby (G2), VA Oaks (G3), Kitten's Joy, Tippett, Chenery

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I'm not as high on Banned as others are. I thought his win Derby day was impressive visually but not nearly as impressive as many made it out to be. I wish I could get into it further, but DRF is down, again, so I'll check back in later.

One of the main concerns with Banned is that he tends to make early moves and then pays for it down the lane. That wasn't the case in the American Turf, where Gomez had him well out of it, and it wasn't an issue in the Jefferson cup with only 4 runners.

Not sure what the course will be like at Colonial, but isn't Street Game's big effort last out a bit tempered by the yielding conditions?

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

One of the main concerns with Banned is that he tends to make early moves and then pays for it down the lane. That wasn't the case in the American Turf, where Gomez had him well out of it, and it wasn't an issue in the Jefferson cup with only 4 runners.

Not sure what the course will be like at Colonial, but isn't Street Game's big effort last out a bit tempered by the yielding conditions?

No arguement from me regarding Street Game. He has to prove that effort wasn't him handling the course better than everyone else and I'm a bit biased because he's a NY Bred. I just see him as a horse that is getting better and I think (hope) he's as good as I think he might be. Of course, he could also run 8th with the way I've been going lately.

It's not that I don't think Banned is good. But people were calling him the best American turf horse we have after the American Turf. I think he ran well, but was the beneficiary of an intelligent ride from Gomez as you mentioned.

Either way it's a race I'm excited to see, which doesn't happen as much nowadays as it should.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

No arguement from me regarding Street Game. He has to prove that effort wasn't him handling the course better than everyone else and I'm a bit biased because he's a NY Bred. I just see him as a horse that is getting better and I think (hope) he's as good as I think he might be. Of course, he could also run 8th with the way I've been going lately.

It's not that I don't think Banned is good. But people were calling him the best American turf horse we have after the American Turf. I think he ran well, but was the beneficiary of an intelligent ride from Gomez as you mentioned.

Either way it's a race I'm excited to see, which doesn't happen as much nowadays as it should.

I do think he's close to the top if not at the top. It's always tough to rate a 3yo turfer over elders, for example two of the most dominant US 3yo turfers in the last 10 years (Kitten's Joy and Artie Schiller) both lost in the BC. That being said, there are very few I'd take head to head against him right now at the middle distances. Does he want to go 12F? Not sure yet.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by philcski

I do think he's close to the top if not at the top. It's always tough to rate a 3yo turfer over elders, for example two of the most dominant US 3yo turfers in the last 10 years (Kitten's Joy and Artie Schiller) both lost in the BC. That being said, there are very few I'd take head to head against him right now at the middle distances. Does he want to go 12F? Not sure yet.

I think he'd be an also ran against Gio Ponti (at what seems like 85-90% of his old self), Courageous Cat or Get Stormy.

I just think his American is VERY overrated. If he proves me wrong on Saturday, I'll be here to admit it.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I think he'd be an also ran against Gio Ponti (at what seems like 85-90% of his old self), Courageous Cat or Get Stormy.

I just think his American is VERY overrated. If he proves me wrong on Saturday, I'll be here to admit it.

Yeah I'd probably take Get Stormy at 8-9F despite the loss last out at MTH, obviously he has the speed advantage, and he's always been a favorite of mine; not sure about CC yet, that field he beat in the Shoe was pretty bad and he got a great trip behind a rank leader setting moderate early fractions. Gio Ponti at 100% would be an easy choice but like you said he's probably 85% now. Watch Banned's last race, even though it's only 4 horses he looked superb doing it.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by philcski

not sure about CC yet, that field he beat in the Shoe was pretty bad

Caracortado and Victor's Cry, while not world-beaters, are pretty steady horses with some quality. They at least stack up to horses like Doubles Partner, Smart Bid, Court Vision, etc.

Not to mention, Courageous Cat himself was a top class 3yo turf horse that got Goldikova's scraps in the 2009 BC Mile.

[dino]

Banned looks like the best horse but i would never make a big bet on any horse Lezcano is on. Last year at Saratoga he rode like an apprentice at Suffolk Downs.