MARKETING CONVERSATIONS: 2 interesting pieces

[Dahoss]

Until horse racing accepts what it is, it's not going to change. Gamblers know what drives the sport, but you'd never know that if you watched the NBC telecast of the Preakness this past weekend.

[Rootdog1]

Thats old school.....its not just gamblers. What is the perception of gamblers? Its an analytical game which involves money. And this doesnt include people who could be fans based on the love of amazing animals. You want to be right just as much as you want to win money...at least I do. BTW, I agree with your point about what drives the sport, my comments are regarding the marketing of the sport. Marketing it as a lottery does not work. What I have experienced is new people enter into the sport, dont understand how to analyze a race and lose money, and in turn stop supporting racing. That is what you get when you market gambling to people who have no idea how to solve the puzzle.

[Dahoss]

I agree. Teaching people how to solve the puzzle would be a lot better than giving them fluff pieces about trainers. Showing people how to handicap a race and then in turn showing them the reward for picking the winner would do wonders.

Unfortunately that doesn't happen now and it probably won't ever.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I agree. Teaching people how to solve the puzzle would be a lot better than giving them fluff pieces about trainers. Showing people how to handicap a race and then in turn showing them the reward for picking the winner would do wonders.

Unfortunately that doesn't happen now and it probably won't ever.

Horse racing doesn't control the content of NBC's show. NBC does the same thing with the Olympics. They sell human interest crap to attract women viewers. It is the reason that things like figure skating which is more reality TV with Russian judges than sport get top billing.

They probably actually think they are catering to gamblers by giving the odds a few times and telling us who Mike Battaglia likes.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Horse racing doesn't control the content of NBC's show. NBC does the same thing with the Olympics. They sell human interest crap to attract women viewers. It is the reason that things like figure skating which is more reality TV with Russian judges than sport get top billing.

They probably actually think they are catering to gamblers by giving the odds a few times and telling us who Mike Battaglia likes.

I'm aware it doesn't control the content of NBC's show.

If racing could get the people who do control it to cater to gamblers instead of drooling fans holding signs, we'd be on to something.

[dalakhani]

How does Churchill Downs get 38,000 plus people on a saturday night with no significant stake race?

Whatever they did, it worked. Why can't this be mimicked?

[dalakhani]

For the record, I think what the author is proposing in the positioning article is silly.

You aren't going to get people in the door by telling them they have to learn something new and solve puzzles while risking money. Sure, once you get people in the door, you can find some of them that will become players but the problem for the most part is getting people to actually come to track. And we do this by telling them that they will solve puzzles while the track takes 25% of what they bet? Good luck with that one.

Fewer days, more horses in a nicer setting with greater entertainment bang. Going to the track needs to be an event with racing being part of the package.

What did Churchill do differently to draw 38k?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

For the record, I think what the author is proposing in the positioning article is silly.

You aren't going to get people in the door by telling them they have to learn something new and solve puzzles while risking money. Sure, once you get people in the door, you can find some of them that will become players but the problem for the most part is getting people to actually come to track. And we do this by telling them that they will solve puzzles while the track takes 25% of what they bet? Good luck with that one.

Fewer days, more horses in a nicer setting with greater entertainment bang. Going to the track needs to be an event with racing being part of the package.

What did Churchill do differently to draw 38k?

I still can't understand why people dont understand why this won't work?

The appeal of horse racing should be that you can make money at it. That if you work hard enough at it you can figure out the puzzle and be financially rewarded. All this other stuff is fluff.

Trying to create an atmosphere where every racing day is an event outside of Saratoga or maybe Keeneland or Del Mar is pretty much impossible. Not to mention that most tracks heavily depend on simulcasting which will always be hard to make sexy. Too often when we talk about big picture ideas in racing we forget that the majority of racing is not Saturday at Saratoga.

The game needs to attract people smart enough to appreciate and relish the challenge of handicapping and greedy enough to keep coming back.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I still can't understand why people dont understand why this won't work?

The appeal of horse racing should be that you can make money at it. That if you work hard enough at it you can figure out the puzzle and be financially rewarded. All this other stuff is fluff.

Trying to create an atmosphere where every racing day is an event outside of Saratoga or maybe Keeneland or Del Mar is pretty much impossible. Not to mention that most tracks heavily depend on simulcasting which will always be hard to make sexy. Too often when we talk about big picture ideas in racing we forget that the majority of racing is not Saturday at Saratoga.

The game needs to attract people smart enough to appreciate and relish the challenge of handicapping and greedy enough to keep coming back.

This outmoded thinking is exactly why the sport is going in the toilet. Why is it impossible to create a festive atmosphere in places other than the ones that have already done it? I fail to understand why people think the present course will actually work.

You aren't going to get enough SMART people that are DUMB enough to bet horses regularly...certainly not if your means of attracting them is by pitching this silly puzzle thing.

The places you named, as well as downs after dark, do well because they sell it as an event as well as an image. The image of high society with things that appeal outside of racing and gambling. I agree that the backbone is still the gambler but in order to attract new ones you have to change the perception of the track being a seedy place where a bunch of degenerate losers and nursing homers go to waste their lives away.

Vegas didn't get you in by selling you the gambling. They sold the party and lifestyle.

[Rootdog1]

well, we agree to disagree. Saying its a party is not a true sustainable model....sorry, it just isnt. Might work for 4 Friday nights a year.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

This outmoded thinking is exactly why the sport is going in the toilet. Why is it impossible to create a festive atmosphere in places other than the ones that have already done it? I fail to understand why people think the present course will actually work.

You aren't going to get enough SMART people that are DUMB enough to bet horses regularly...certainly not if your means of attracting them is by pitching this silly puzzle thing.

The places you named, as well as downs after dark, do well because they sell it as an event as well as an image. The image of high society with things that appeal outside of racing and gambling. I agree that the backbone is still the gambler but in order to attract new ones you have to change the perception of the track being a seedy place where a bunch of degenerate losers and nursing homers go to waste their lives away.

Vegas didn't get you in by selling you the gambling. They sold the party and lifestyle.

Stick to off topic and sports threads.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

This outmoded thinking is exactly why the sport is going in the toilet. Why is it impossible to create a festive atmosphere in places other than the ones that have already done it? I fail to understand why people think the present course will actually work.

You aren't going to get enough SMART people that are DUMB enough to bet horses regularly...certainly not if your means of attracting them is by pitching this silly puzzle thing.

The places you named, as well as downs after dark, do well because they sell it as an event as well as an image. The image of high society with things that appeal outside of racing and gambling. I agree that the backbone is still the gambler but in order to attract new ones you have to change the perception of the track being a seedy place where a bunch of degenerate losers and nursing homers go to waste their lives away.

Vegas didn't get you in by selling you the gambling. They sold the party and lifestyle.

Ok take today for example. How do you suppose we create an event atmosphere for Belmont on a typical Thursday?

We need to sell gambling because that is our product. What has been written about is hardly the current course. I guess people who think like you just dont understand or refuse to acknowledge that economic realities exist and we can't make every day Xmas.

I find it hard to believe that we can trick potential gamblers into thinking that they are high society people and then they will start to become regulars. Especially when virtually all the growth in the gambling market is online.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I still can't understand why people dont understand why this won't work?

The appeal of horse racing should be that you can make money at it. That if you work hard enough at it you can figure out the puzzle and be financially rewarded. All this other stuff is fluff.

Trying to create an atmosphere where every racing day is an event outside of Saratoga or maybe Keeneland or Del Mar is pretty much impossible. Not to mention that most tracks heavily depend on simulcasting which will always be hard to make sexy. Too often when we talk about big picture ideas in racing we forget that the majority of racing is not Saturday at Saratoga.

The game needs to attract people smart enough to appreciate and relish the challenge of handicapping and greedy enough to keep coming back.

This sums it up pretty well.

The other thing I don't hear mentioned enough is it's not as though we have a shortage of gamblers out there. We're a society of action junkies looking to bet on anything. We just need to steer them in our direction.

[horseofcourse]

In the end, I think the problem is that you do actually need to study AND be smart to make money gambling on horse racing. Society is now very fast paced and most don't have the time to make the time investment to be successful doing it. I tried it for a year and a half and found out very quickly, I couldn't do it. I was flushing money down the toilet. I quit. I always liked the sport for the thoroughbred running aspect of it as their efficiency of running fast is pretty cool, but I've got a family and a job and crap taking up time that I simply don't have the ability to gamble on the sport at all. I just don't.

Unfortunately society is getting more dumbed down by the second, and the fact that you actually need to think in gambling on horse racing is a detriment in my opinion. You need no thinking to pull a lever and that is where we are headed more and more.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

How does Churchill Downs get 38,000 plus people on a saturday night with no significant stake race?

Whatever they did, it worked. Why can't this be mimicked?

It was sold as an unique event in a horse racing friendly town with very little going on at a popular venue that lies right next to a big university. It has a lot more to do with the demographics of the city than horse racing. Hell if they just had a big party there with no racing they would still get 25k people.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

It was sold as an unique event in a horse racing friendly town with very little going on at a popular venue that lies right next to a big university. It has a lot more to do with the demographics of the city than horse racing. Hell if they just had a big party there with no racing they would still get 25k people.

Maybe you are on to something here Chuckers. Is Louisville any more "horse racing friendly" than say NYC? And even if it is, the sheer size of the urban venues could easily create the same gate if sold the right way.

Handle was up over 25% year over year not to mention rev from concessions.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Maybe you are on to something here Chuckers. Is Louisville any more "horse racing friendly" than say NYC? And even if it is, the sheer size of the urban venues could easily create the same gate if sold the right way.

Handle was up over 25% year over year not to mention rev from concessions.

Is Louisville more horse friendly than NYC? Have you ever been there?

The truth remains that CD is the most famous and recognizable place in L'ville and the fact is there simply isnt that much to do there unlike most other sizable urban areas.