MARKETING CONVERSATIONS: 2 interesting pieces

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I still can't understand why people dont understand why this won't work?

The appeal of horse racing should be that you can make money at it. That if you work hard enough at it you can figure out the puzzle and be financially rewarded. All this other stuff is fluff.

Trying to create an atmosphere where every racing day is an event outside of Saratoga or maybe Keeneland or Del Mar is pretty much impossible. Not to mention that most tracks heavily depend on simulcasting which will always be hard to make sexy. Too often when we talk about big picture ideas in racing we forget that the majority of racing is not Saturday at Saratoga.

The game needs to attract people smart enough to appreciate and relish the challenge of handicapping and greedy enough to keep coming back.

This outmoded thinking is exactly why the sport is going in the toilet. Why is it impossible to create a festive atmosphere in places other than the ones that have already done it? I fail to understand why people think the present course will actually work.

You aren't going to get enough SMART people that are DUMB enough to bet horses regularly...certainly not if your means of attracting them is by pitching this silly puzzle thing.

The places you named, as well as downs after dark, do well because they sell it as an event as well as an image. The image of high society with things that appeal outside of racing and gambling. I agree that the backbone is still the gambler but in order to attract new ones you have to change the perception of the track being a seedy place where a bunch of degenerate losers and nursing homers go to waste their lives away.

Vegas didn't get you in by selling you the gambling. They sold the party and lifestyle.

[Rootdog1]

well, we agree to disagree. Saying its a party is not a true sustainable model....sorry, it just isnt. Might work for 4 Friday nights a year.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Rootdog1

well, we agree to disagree. Saying its a party is not a true sustainable model....sorry, it just isnt. Might work for 4 Friday nights a year.

And the "puzzle" thing is sustainable?

"hey, smart guy! Yes, you. Come on down to pimlico and give the house 25% so that you can get your windows washed by the crackhead and solve some puzzles for money. You may feel like you're in a penitentiary and you may have to dodge a few rats but this is what smart guys do!"

Yes, certainly sustainable. I stand corrected.

[dalakhani]

I almost forgot the second part of the ad, the one geared toward the smart women out there:

"Hey, smart girl! Yes, you. Come on out to Pimlico and sit in a smelly smoke filled room where you can give the house 25% to help pay for the security guard to escort you out when you leave. On some days, maybe there might actually be another girl or two under the age of 70 that are here because they are smart and they like to solve puzzles. Why in God's name would you want to go to a bar or a mall or a restaurant or a show when you could be down here being eye groped?"

I apologize to all. The puzzle idea rocks!

[Rootdog1]

Your perception of the game is sad to me. You want to change the profile of the people at the track and my comments are about how to change the way the game is marketed to people, which in the end should improve the people at the track.

[Rootdog1]

Have you ever been to a Hollywood Park friday nite? Keeneland doesnt have nite racing and yes, there is a college crowd in party mode......for the freaking 6 weekends a year it is open. You need to think about your argument more.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Rootdog1

Your perception of the game is sad to me. You want to change the profile of the people at the track and my comments are about how to change the way the game is marketed to people, which in the end should improve the people at the track.

Root-

That's the folly of it rootdog. There are steps you have to take to attract people. Marketing the game as a thinking person's sport is not novel. If you think it's "puzzles" that are bringing people to poker I would suggest you watch it's coverage.

[Rootdog1]

I dont watch its coverage...thats my point.

I do see your argument, but I stand by my comment that marketing it as a party is not sustainable.

later

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Rootdog1

well, we agree to disagree. Saying its a party is not a true sustainable model....sorry, it just isnt. Might work for 4 Friday nights a year.

Seriously, its only sustainable at Keeneland, Saratoga, del mar and now churchill downs?

Why would it not be sustainable anywhere else? And why couldn't it help to draw more fans for the days that it wasn't a "party"?

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Seriously, its only sustainable at Keeneland, Saratoga, del mar and now churchill downs?

Why would it not be sustainable anywhere else? And why couldn't it help to draw more fans for the days that it wasn't a "party"?

It's much more complicated than just saying reduce dates, make it a party.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

It's much more complicated than just saying reduce dates, make it a party.

I realize this. These are really broad strokes.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Seriously, its only sustainable at Keeneland, Saratoga, del mar and now churchill downs?

Why would it not be sustainable anywhere else? And why couldn't it help to draw more fans for the days that it wasn't a "party"?

Most days CD is deserted. Keeneland is 15 days every 6 months right in th middle of horse country. Saratoga isnt exactly jammed on Mondays/Wednesday and Thursday and by the end of the meet the festive atmosphere has worn off.

And the fact is that Saratoga has the history angle, and Keeneland and CD are located in one of the few areas where horse racing is still a big deal. Why do you think that you can bottle this festive atmosphere and transfer it other places?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Most days CD is deserted. Keeneland is 15 days every 6 months right in th middle of horse country. Saratoga isnt exactly jammed on Mondays/Wednesday and Thursday and by the end of the meet the festive atmosphere has worn off.

And the fact is that Saratoga has the history angle, and Keeneland and CD are located in one of the few areas where horse racing is still a big deal. Why do you think that you can bottle this festive atmosphere and transfer it other places?

Sadly, its the only hope in my opinion. The cost of racing puts it at such an extreme disadvantage to its competition for the gambling dollars. You know those facts and numbers certainly better than I do.

Changes don't come overnight. It takes time. I agree that there are some places that are just hopeless. Obviously, the state of maryland really doesn't care very much if there is live racing there and frankly I don't see how it would be possible for either of those tracks to return to their hey days. At the same time, its hard for me to believe that Monmouth couldn't be turned into some type of Jewel. It isn't my favorite track but you have location and you have a ton of people in a great environment.

Gulfstream or a revamped hialeah couldn't be made into profitable, productive venues if marketed properly?

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

This outmoded thinking is exactly why the sport is going in the toilet. Why is it impossible to create a festive atmosphere in places other than the ones that have already done it? I fail to understand why people think the present course will actually work.

You aren't going to get enough SMART people that are DUMB enough to bet horses regularly...certainly not if your means of attracting them is by pitching this silly puzzle thing.

The places you named, as well as downs after dark, do well because they sell it as an event as well as an image. The image of high society with things that appeal outside of racing and gambling. I agree that the backbone is still the gambler but in order to attract new ones you have to change the perception of the track being a seedy place where a bunch of degenerate losers and nursing homers go to waste their lives away.

Vegas didn't get you in by selling you the gambling. They sold the party and lifestyle.

Stick to off topic and sports threads.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Stick to off topic and sports threads.

Or?

Will you troll me and say mean things to me?

Lets stay on topic. Certainly you are bright enough.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Or?

Will you troll me and say mean things to me?

Lets stay on topic. Certainly you are bright enough.

Will I troll you and say mean things to YOU?

That's rich.

Those are your tactics. Own them, or cry about it in another thread.

The problem is you aren't bright enough for this thread. Which is why I suggested you stick to the areas where you can pretend you are.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Will I troll you and say mean things to YOU?

That's rich.

Those are your tactics. Own them, or cry about it in another thread.

The problem is you aren't bright enough for this thread. Which is why I suggested you stick to the areas where you can pretend you are.

Maybe you will make a poll about me. Or better yet, maybe you will threaten me by PM.

Oh I can't wait.

Obviously, you have nothing to contribute. Can you leave this thread alone and start another one for your tantrum? Thank you.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Maybe you will make a poll about me. Or better yet, maybe you will threaten me by PM.

Oh I can't wait.

Obviously, you have nothing to contribute. Can you leave this thread alone and start another one for your tantrum? Thank you.

Threaten you? Who did I threaten? What are you talking about? Nice deflection though.

I'm just giving you a taste of your medicine. You criticize everyone for a poor opinion, when in reality, you have one of the worst on the board.

Own it.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Threaten you? Who did I threaten? What are you talking about? Nice deflection though.

I'm just giving you a taste of your medicine. You criticize everyone for a poor opinion, when in reality, you have one of the worst on the board.

Own it.

everyone is a far distant second place to Riot.

Even CSC and Booth Operator

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Threaten you? Who did I threaten? What are you talking about? Nice deflection though.

I'm just giving you a taste of your medicine. You criticize everyone for a poor opinion, when in reality, you have one of the worst on the board.

Own it.

And your opinion is so great right? You haven't even offered an opinion on this subject you spineless loser and if you did it was lost in all of the other garbage that you spill on the fifty boards you post on 24/7.

Again, this could be a worthwhile discussion. If you want to sling garbage, start a new thread and I will be happy to engage. If you want to hang out with the grown ups, please comport yourself as such. Thanks.