cant say i dont agree with most of this

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

A Texan's answer to Welfare

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are
willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson G/Z

From the Nov 18, 2010 Waco Tribune Herald, Waco, TX:
Put me in charge . . .

Put me in charge of food stamps. I'd get rid of Lone Star cards; no cash for
Ding Dongs or Ho Ho's, just money for 50-pound bags of rice and beans,
blocks of cheese, and all the powdered milk you can haul away.
If you want steak and frozen pizza, get a job!

Put me in charge of Medicaid. The first thing I'd do is get women
Norplant birth control implants or tubal ligations. Then, we'll test
recipients for drugs, alcohol and nicotine and document all tattoos and
piercings. If you want to reproduce, use drugs, alcohol, smoke or get tats
and piercings, get a job!

Put me in charge of government housing. Ever lived in a military barracks?
You WILL maintain our property in a clean and good state of repair. Your
"home" will be subject to inspections any time and possessions will be
inventoried. If you want a plasma TV or Xbox 360, get a job and your
own place!

In addition, you will either present a check stub from a job each week or
you will report to a "government" job. It may be cleaning the roadways of
trash, painting and repairing public housing, whatever we find for you. We
will sell your 22 inch rims and low profile tires and your blasting stereo
and speakers and put that money toward the "common good."

Before you write that I've violated someone's rights, realize that all of
the above is voluntary. If you want our money, accept our rules. Before you
say that this would be "demeaning" and ruin their "self esteem," consider
that it wasn't that long ago that taking someone else's money for doing
absolutely nothing was demeaning, and lowered self esteem!

If we are expected to pay for other people's mistakes we should at least
attempt to make them learn from their bad choices. The current system
rewards them for continuing to make bad choices!

And, while you are on Gov't subsistence, you no longer can VOTE! Yes, that's
correct: for you to vote would be a conflict of interest. You will
voluntarily remove yourself from voting while you are receiving a Gov't
welfare check. If you want to vote, get a job!

A bunch of overly simplistic BS, right wing propaganda that poor folks are poor because they want to be and are the source of all our problems. People are in need because of their own "mistakes" like being born to the wrong parents, being sick or physically disabled etc etc. The most telling part of this trash is the last part...lets deny the right to vote to folks. After centuries of struggle by women and other minorities to gain the right to vote, lets roll back the clock, maybe land ownership should be a requirement to vote? Of course placing folks in "military housing" sounds a bit like what we did to Japanese Americans in WWII, a real high point in our history...and lets force women to be rendered unable to have children...just like China. All in all, this sounds more like a quote from Hitler than an idea of any American who values civil liberties!

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

A bunch of overly simplistic BS, right wing propaganda that poor folks are poor because they want to be and are the source of all our problems. People are in need because of their own "mistakes" like being born to the wrong parents, being sick or physically disabled etc etc. The most telling part of this trash is the last part...lets deny the right to vote to folks. After centuries of struggle by women and other minorities to gain the right to vote, lets roll back the clock, maybe land ownership should be a requirement to vote? Of course placing folks in "military housing" sounds a bit like what we did to Japanese Americans in WWII, a real high point in our history...and lets force women to be rendered unable to have children...just like China. All in all, this sounds more like a quote from Hitler than an idea of any American who values civil liberties!

while I do not agree with denying the right to vote..

a few things:

why would it be a bad thing to drug test welfare recipients? (of course only if there was a very cost efficient way of drug testing)

also why would it be a bad thing to make sure people who are living in goverment housing are keeping the place nice? I dont own my own place, I rent (meaning I'm paying to live there), and my landlord still has the right to make sure his place is kept up.

I have a pipe dream where people would only get pregnant when are ready for one emotionally and financially... but its just a pipe dream.

Why should food stamps be able to buy you potatoe chips and ice cream? they should be used for food that is healthy and needed to survive, if you want to snack on ****, buy it with your own cash. Why the hell should my friend be able to buy Starbucks mocha coffee from the gas station on a damn food stamp card?

I do think people who are on welfare should have to do community service. at least then you are earning your buck.

its not about poor people being poor because they want to be... its about having some damn respect for the tax dollar, and if you need to live on the tax dollar, it shouldnt just be a free ride.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

while I do not agree with denying the right to vote..

a few things:

why would it be a bad thing to drug test welfare recipients? (of course only if there was a very cost efficient way of drug testing)

also why would it be a bad thing to make sure people who are living in goverment housing are keeping the place nice? I dont own my own place, I rent (meaning I'm paying to live there), and my landlord still has the right to make sure his place is kept up.

I have a pipe dream where people would only get pregnant when are ready for one emotionally and financially... but its just a pipe dream.

Why should food stamps be able to buy you potatoe chips and ice cream? they should be used for food that is healthy and needed to survive, if you want to snack on ****, buy it with your own cash. Why the hell should my friend be able to buy Starbucks mocha coffee from the gas station on a damn food stamp card?

I do think people who are on welfare should have to do community service. at least then you are earning your buck.

its not about poor people being poor because they want to be... its about having some damn respect for the tax dollar, and if you need to live on the tax dollar, it shouldnt just be a free ride.

Being poor in America is by no means a "free ride", it is a life full of anguish...many are homeless, denied necessary medical treatment, victims of violent crimes, forced to live in housing that is rat infested, cold in winter, hot in summer etc. etc. Community service is an idea with merit but much harder to fairly administer than to just say "lets do it", I wouldn't be opposed to that if fairly set up and administered. I see a lot of folks on food stamps, some undeniably use them unwisely but the majority are buying generic groceries to make that resource go far enough to feed their family, for every abuser there are many many folks who use them wisely...again, I am not opposed to common sense restrictions on what one can buy with same. You answered your own question about drug testing. Everyone would hopefully have enough pride to keep their living quarters presentable, I suspect if we have "neat police" the cost of same would far outweigh the benefit however. The answer it seems to me lies in education and availability of jobs that pay a livable wage in areas of poverty not in dreaming up ways to punish the poor or to further widen the gap between the America of the wealthy and the America of the rest of folks. The idea that the poor are poor only because they wish to be or because they are inferior goes against logic, the ideals of all major religions as well as what this country stands for.

[dellinger63]

I'd vote for you.

[Honu]

I agree that women should have an implant BUT that men also should have a reversable masectomy done to them as well. Why is it that women are the one's soley in charge of not reproducing when its usually in most welfare circumstances involving women and children its because the sperm inserter bailed.
I do agree that people in public housing should be made to keep their places neat, free of litter and trash.
I do agree that people on public assistance should be able to provide some service to the community.
So should inmates, people in prison should have to work in prison gardens and pick weeds and trash from the side of the road, hell we should have chain gangs again and have the infrastructure of America rebuilt by those that have commited crimes against her citizens.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Honu

I agree that women should have an implant BUT that men also should have a reversable masectomy done to them as well. Why is it that women are the one's soley in charge of not reproducing when its usually in most welfare circumstances involving women and children its because the sperm inserter bailed.
I do agree that people in public housing should be made to keep their places neat, free of litter and trash.
I do agree that people on public assistance should be able to provide some service to the community.
So should inmates, people in prison should have to work in prison gardens and pick weeds and trash from the side of the road, hell we should have chain gangs again and have the infrastructure of America rebuilt by those that have commited crimes against her citizens.

I don't want my boobs to go away!

[Danzig]

i'm pretty sure she was thinking vasectomy, because i don't know what the other would accomplish....



on another note....there are probably some common sense ways to improve welfare, as well as changes to be made. however, as soon as someone posts the initial article, someone else immediately jumps on said post/poster as it being simplistic bs. and there goes that dialogue. in a way, it's akin to israel. disagree with any aspect, and get accused of anti-semitism.
there are things in this country that need discussion, and change. none of that will happen if people can't listen constructively, have discussions, and avoid knee-jerk, overly simplistic responses. mention of barracks as an example brings comparison to ww2 internment camps-when that wasn't what was suggested. the suggestion was that your provided housing be maintained-a sensible request drug testing-that's a civil rights violation? at work the other day, i was randomly drug tested. did i bitch? no. i peed in a cup. it's a requirement of my employment. if i want my check, i am drug free. yet, that can't be part of welfare? instead of viewing that above as an attack, and immediately jumping on the defensive isn't the answer. actually reading, absorbing, responding usefully-that's what we need.

are welfare recipients the bad guy? no. should they have rules and regs? of course.

as for health care,poor people qualify for medicare or medicaid. there's no reason for them to do without. there's housing assistance, medical/dental assistance, rent, job searches, adult education, etc, etc. the list is endless. i don't know how much more can be done that isn't already. and i'm not sure what's wrong in saying that people should be doing community service of some kind in return for benefits.