Vote on Debt Limit increase?

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by Riot

It does mean our credit rating is immediately and permanently impacted, and that interest rate has now skyrocketed. Let alone the impact on the world markets. Thinking there is no serious, long-term consequences is absurdly wrong.

So that's "actually, you do".

Actually it's the Debt that threatens the U.S. credit rating -just ask S&P.

So if you cut spending and stop borrowing you have a winner - so actually you don't.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by geeker2

Actually it's the Debt that threatens the U.S. credit rating -just ask S&P.

So if you cut spending and stop borrowing you have a winner - so actually you don't.

Not raising the debt ceiling isn't an action that cuts spending and borrowing, is it?

And what what type of talk has negatively influenced that recent S & P announcement? Oh, yeah - politicos yammering on about doing something completely idiotic, not raising the debt ceiling.

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by Riot

Not raising the debt ceiling isn't an action that cuts spending and borrowing, is it?

And what what type of talk has negatively influenced that recent S & P announcement? Oh, yeah - politicos yammering on about doing something completely idiotic, not raising the debt ceiling.

Actually that isn't the reason....it's the long term debt.

S&P said, “We believe there is a significant risk that congressional negotiations could result in no agreement on a medium-term fiscal strategy until after the fall 2012 congressional and presidential elections.” In such a case, the first budget that could include serious fiscal measures would be for the 2014 fiscal year, the report concluded, “and we believe a delay beyond that time is possible.”

[Riot]

Originally Posted by geeker2

Actually that isn't the reason....it's the long term debt.

S&P said, “We believe there is a significant risk that congressional negotiations could result in no agreement on a medium-term fiscal strategy until after the fall 2012 congressional and presidential elections.” In such a case, the first budget that could include serious fiscal measures would be for the 2014 fiscal year, the report concluded, “and we believe a delay beyond that time is possible.”

Yet what you quote proves my point, that yes, one of the reasons S & P (and the rest of the financial world, including our Wall Street which has warned the GOP about not effing with this for political reasons) isn't happy is our lack of serious responsibility-taking about the debt

What did you think of Tim Geithner's letter he sent to Reid in January of this year? (the link is in the Ezra Klein excerpt I posted). We would have to raise the debt ceiling to avoid default even if we never accrued one more penny of charged debt.

[joeydb]

I would vote against this in Congress, and try to get many others to do the same. Rubber stamping debt increases is not going to provide any incentive for the necessary slashing of spending.

If the "Day of Reckoning" comes sooner, so be it. For in order to end this debt crisis gracefully, there will have to be a severe and steady deceleration of spending.

To keep raising the debt ceiling until the creditors (a.k.a. China et al.) cut us off is not an answer.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by joeydb

I would vote against this in Congress, and try to get many others to do the same. Rubber stamping debt increases is not going to provide any incentive for the necessary slashing of spending.

If the "Day of Reckoning" comes sooner, so be it. For in order to end this debt crisis gracefully, there will have to be a severe and steady deceleration of spending.

To keep raising the debt ceiling until the creditors (a.k.a. China et al.) cut us off is not an answer.

So you're entirely okay with the United States defaulting on our debt, and pushing the world into a worldwide recession? And living with the poverty and increased interest rates for everyone (by marked percentage points) for the next two decades at least, if not permanently? The permanent change of life as we know it in the United States? The US becoming no longer a leading first world country?

That's crazy and irresponsible. That is exactly what will happen if we never borrow one more penny, but fail to raise the debt ceiling.

Seriously, Joey - what did you think of Geithner's January letter? That's it's a lie?

You wanna know what we would have to "slash" for the remainder of this year and next in order to not increase the debt ceiling? $754 billion. That's physically impossible.

Hey, you guys can continue to argue that position. I'm out. It's a batshiat crazy position.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Riot

So you're entirely okay with the United States defaulting on our debt, and pushing the world into a worldwide recession? And living with the poverty and increased interest rates for everyone (by marked percentage points) for the next two decades at least, if not permanently? The permanent change of life as we know it in the United States? The US becoming no longer a leading first world country?

That's crazy and irresponsible. That is exactly what will happen if we never borrow one more penny, but fail to raise the debt ceiling.

Seriously, Joey - what did you think of Geithner's January letter? That's it's a lie?

You wanna know what we would have to "slash" for the remainder of this year and next in order to not increase the debt ceiling? $754 billion. That's physically impossible.

Hey, you guys can continue to argue that position. I'm out. It's a batshiat crazy position.

Every time the debt ceiling vote comes up, it is raised. EVERY time. That's batshiat crazy. And, if we go Riot's way, and many agree with her,it's a "must" to keep borrowing more...when we can't afford the debt we already have.

The crazy and irresponsible behavior has already occurred: the accumulation of this debt in the first place.

Every other effect you list: poverty, decline in world position for our country, standard of living changes, will certainly occur when we cannot borrow one more penny from a creditor. That day is rapidly approaching. By choosing to limit our own borrowing - as late in the game as it is - give us a chance to recover.

Automatically raising the debt ceiling - which is what will occur every time so long as we are driven by fear - will not let us change course at all until we default - for real - permanently, and every effect you list will be even more severe.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Riot

You wanna know what we would have to "slash" for the remainder of this year and next in order to not increase the debt ceiling? $754 billion. That's physically impossible.

Why? If they can borrow and spend $862 billion as part of a "stimulus", why can't we cut an amount less than that?

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yet what you quote proves my point, that yes, one of the reasons S & P (and the rest of the financial world, including our Wall Street which has warned the GOP about not effing with this for political reasons) isn't happy is our lack of serious responsibility-taking about the debt

What did you think of Tim Geithner's letter he sent to Reid in January of this year? (the link is in the Ezra Klein excerpt I posted). We would have to raise the debt ceiling to avoid default even if we never accrued one more penny of charged debt.

Yeah like I would believe what Geithner says - he's a political tool.

[lord007]

Originally Posted by geeker2

Yeah like I would believe what Geithner says - he's a political tool.

Did he pay his taxes this year??

[joeydb]

I was thinking more along the lines of a straight up-or-down vote, but it also appears that a filibuster is a possibility:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...-ceiling-vote/

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by lord007

Did he pay his taxes this year??