Vote on Debt Limit increase?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by geeker2

Actually you don't. Just because the debt limit isn't raised it doesn't mean we will not make the interest payment on the debt.

It does mean our credit rating is immediately and permanently impacted, and that interest rate has now skyrocketed. Let alone the impact on the world markets. Thinking there is no serious, long-term consequences is absurdly wrong.

So that's "actually, you do".

[dellinger63]

[quote=Riot;770201]

Actually you do. It does mean our credit rating is immediately impacted, and that interest rate has now skyrocketed. Thinking there is no "real" consequences is absurd.

What happens in 10-20 years when GDP equals or is less than our interest payment and no one but Cash-For-Gold is willing to give us money? Or will we keep printing monay and a gallon of milk will cost $2K?

[Riot]

[quote=dellinger63;770205]

Originally Posted by Riot

What happens in 10-20 years when GDP equals or is less than our interest payment and no one but Cash-For-Gold is willing to give us money? Or will keep printing monay and a gallon of milk will cost $2K?

You don't fix that by refusing to raise the debt ceiling. Do you?

[dellinger63]

[quote=Riot;770206]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

You don't fix that by refusing to raise the debt ceiling. Do you?

If the average tax-paying American family (not the 40% of households who pay no income tax) largest problem in the household was their budget; do they go out and seek more credit cards and financing or do they make do with what they have and try and get back on their feet?

I know if the government was an average family they'd take out credit cards on all the children and babies and let them worry about it while ma and dad partied with the neighbors.

Our number one problem is the debt and now we NEED to increase it?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

If the average tax-paying American family (not the 40% of households who pay no income tax) largest problem in the household was their budget; do they go out and seek more credit cards and financing or do they make do with what they have and try and get back on their feet?

That's not a very accurate analogy. A more accurate analogy goes to liquidity.

Our number one problem is the debt and now we NEED to increase it?

Yes, we NEED to increase our debt ceiling, or we will harm our rating for decades into the future, and likely force the world into a recession.

Not raising the debt ceiling - defaulting on our obligations - does nothing to change the amount of our debt - it only makes it far more expensive and harder to get in the future. It will hugely increase the cost of the debt we already owe. Yeah, that's smart?

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Not raising the debt ceiling does nothing to change the amount of our debt - it only makes it far more expensive and harder to get in the future.

Give me a break. We may need to put in a stipulation regarding unforeseen national defense or disasters but we don't need to raise the limit for more useless cash for clunker like programs. We need to trim down as a nation both in weight and debt. We need to accept the private sector and what it can do. No Federal worker should be mowing grass, cleaning toilets or anything else than can be contracted out at a lower price with no pension obligations. Look out for the taxpayer above the government worker. Start there and the rest will fall in place.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Give me a break. We may need to put in a stipulation regarding unforeseen national defense or disasters but we don't need to raise the limit for more useless cash for clunker like programs. We need to trim down as a nation both in weight and debt. We need to accept the private sector and what it can do. No Federal worker should be mowing grass, cleaning toilets or anything else than can be contracted out at a lower price with no pension obligations. Look out for the taxpayer above the government worker. Start there and the rest will fall in place.

You clearly misunderstand what the debt ceiling is used for, and how it's used on a daily basis.

Yes, we need to markedly trim our expenses (getting rid of two unfunded wars, and finding a way to fund the unfunded huge Medicare giveaway is a start, and letting the Bush tax cuts expire will help immensely), and increase our income (taxes) to help pay for both our expenses and our debt.

That has nothing to do with the necessity to immediately raise the debt ceiling.

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by Riot

It does mean our credit rating is immediately and permanently impacted, and that interest rate has now skyrocketed. Let alone the impact on the world markets. Thinking there is no serious, long-term consequences is absurdly wrong.

So that's "actually, you do".

Actually it's the Debt that threatens the U.S. credit rating -just ask S&P.

So if you cut spending and stop borrowing you have a winner - so actually you don't.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by geeker2

Actually it's the Debt that threatens the U.S. credit rating -just ask S&P.

So if you cut spending and stop borrowing you have a winner - so actually you don't.

Not raising the debt ceiling isn't an action that cuts spending and borrowing, is it?

And what what type of talk has negatively influenced that recent S & P announcement? Oh, yeah - politicos yammering on about doing something completely idiotic, not raising the debt ceiling.

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by Riot

Not raising the debt ceiling isn't an action that cuts spending and borrowing, is it?

And what what type of talk has negatively influenced that recent S & P announcement? Oh, yeah - politicos yammering on about doing something completely idiotic, not raising the debt ceiling.

Actually that isn't the reason....it's the long term debt.

S&P said, “We believe there is a significant risk that congressional negotiations could result in no agreement on a medium-term fiscal strategy until after the fall 2012 congressional and presidential elections.” In such a case, the first budget that could include serious fiscal measures would be for the 2014 fiscal year, the report concluded, “and we believe a delay beyond that time is possible.”

[Riot]

Originally Posted by geeker2

Actually that isn't the reason....it's the long term debt.

S&P said, “We believe there is a significant risk that congressional negotiations could result in no agreement on a medium-term fiscal strategy until after the fall 2012 congressional and presidential elections.” In such a case, the first budget that could include serious fiscal measures would be for the 2014 fiscal year, the report concluded, “and we believe a delay beyond that time is possible.”

Yet what you quote proves my point, that yes, one of the reasons S & P (and the rest of the financial world, including our Wall Street which has warned the GOP about not effing with this for political reasons) isn't happy is our lack of serious responsibility-taking about the debt

What did you think of Tim Geithner's letter he sent to Reid in January of this year? (the link is in the Ezra Klein excerpt I posted). We would have to raise the debt ceiling to avoid default even if we never accrued one more penny of charged debt.

[joeydb]

I would vote against this in Congress, and try to get many others to do the same. Rubber stamping debt increases is not going to provide any incentive for the necessary slashing of spending.

If the "Day of Reckoning" comes sooner, so be it. For in order to end this debt crisis gracefully, there will have to be a severe and steady deceleration of spending.

To keep raising the debt ceiling until the creditors (a.k.a. China et al.) cut us off is not an answer.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by joeydb

I would vote against this in Congress, and try to get many others to do the same. Rubber stamping debt increases is not going to provide any incentive for the necessary slashing of spending.

If the "Day of Reckoning" comes sooner, so be it. For in order to end this debt crisis gracefully, there will have to be a severe and steady deceleration of spending.

To keep raising the debt ceiling until the creditors (a.k.a. China et al.) cut us off is not an answer.

So you're entirely okay with the United States defaulting on our debt, and pushing the world into a worldwide recession? And living with the poverty and increased interest rates for everyone (by marked percentage points) for the next two decades at least, if not permanently? The permanent change of life as we know it in the United States? The US becoming no longer a leading first world country?

That's crazy and irresponsible. That is exactly what will happen if we never borrow one more penny, but fail to raise the debt ceiling.

Seriously, Joey - what did you think of Geithner's January letter? That's it's a lie?

You wanna know what we would have to "slash" for the remainder of this year and next in order to not increase the debt ceiling? $754 billion. That's physically impossible.

Hey, you guys can continue to argue that position. I'm out. It's a batshiat crazy position.

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yet what you quote proves my point, that yes, one of the reasons S & P (and the rest of the financial world, including our Wall Street which has warned the GOP about not effing with this for political reasons) isn't happy is our lack of serious responsibility-taking about the debt

What did you think of Tim Geithner's letter he sent to Reid in January of this year? (the link is in the Ezra Klein excerpt I posted). We would have to raise the debt ceiling to avoid default even if we never accrued one more penny of charged debt.

Yeah like I would believe what Geithner says - he's a political tool.

[lord007]

Originally Posted by geeker2

Yeah like I would believe what Geithner says - he's a political tool.

Did he pay his taxes this year??